quote:

---

Is this why so many Eastman Kodak prints have gone pink?

---

Or haven't you noticed the improvements made over 20 years ago?

quote:

---

When I was in the USAF, we had several homosexuals who "came out of the closet". The problem was that they tried to force themselves onto "straight" servicemen. The result was some well deserved violence directed at the homosexuals prior to their discharges!

---

Well deserved? For making a pass at someone, even if they didn't like it? Would Will still feel it was okay if that was the net result of his making an unwelcome pass at some woman?

It's all too recent (1992) that some of our fine boys in uniform felt the same way:

quote:

---

Yokosuka, Japan: Airman Apprentice Terry M. Helvey was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of [Navy Petty Officer]Allen Schindler in a public restroom in Sasebo, Japan. Schindler, who was homosexual, was so badly beaten that the Navy pathologist described his injuries as "more consistent with a high-speed automobile accident or lo-speed airplane crash. " Schindler's liver "contained holes that allowed him (the pathologist) to see straight through it."

---

Sorry I did not make that clear.

However, I personally feel that this forum is going to quickly get out of hand. I suggest that we either make nice quickly or Brad should shut this particular one down.

We have worked too hard to become professional associates to have that ruined by very strong personal feelings that are coming out on this one.

The civil rights movement, the feminist movement, the Second Vatican Council, the War on Poverty, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance, the Anti-Defamation League the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, and other societal movements of our times, have increased public counciousness for the tolerence of diversity and respect for individuals. This tolerence is now expressed in laws, especially in New York City and state, forbidding economic discrimination, or permitting a hostile workplace environment causing physical or psychological harm to an individual .

I applaud Eastman Kodak for its pro-active commitment to respect for individual differences and its attempts to create a healthy, smoke-free, discrimination-free and hate-free work environment. And for having the good sense to realize that their policy will not only benefit their personnel, but increase the conpany's leadership standing, and save them millions in lawsuits filed by the agrieved
workers in less enlightened corporations.

Gerard

quote:

---

That's bad, but not funny.
Or haven't you noticed the improvements made over 20 years ago?

---

Oops I think I have hit a raw nerve. Memo to self: Don't mention Eastman Kodak prints going pink, red or any other color!

It's not P.C. (Photographically Correct)

cheers Peter

ps Yes I'm aware of the improvements Kodak have made John but there are a lot of Eastman Kodak Pink films from earlier years for sale.

quote:

---

Well deserved? For making a pass at someone, even if they didn't like it? Would Will still feel it was okay if that was the net result of his making an unwelcome pass at some woman?

---

In the context of a workplace, if a woman complained that a man had made an unwelcome pass at her, the man would at the very least be severely disciplined, and possibly sacked. If a man complained that another man had made a pass at him, the victim would probably be accused of homophobia and dealt with like he was the offender. There have been several constructive dismissal cases in the UK in recent years resulting from this happening. Sexual violence and harassment should not be tolerated by or from anyone, whatever their orientation, but in my experience that isn't what happens in the real world.

quote:

---

FWIW, my e-mail is NOT "flooded with PC propaganda".

---

I think this raises a broader point, which is that coprorate e-mail systems within large organisations make it very easy for you to send messages to colleagues which they really don't need. My work is based in a university (3,000 staff approx.) and only today I had a message informing me of a vacancy for a senior lecturer in criminology, and another stating that a building I never use will be closed for three hours next week to test the fire alarm. I strongly suspect that this is how the man at Kodak got himself into trouble. It was just too easy to fire off a message to 'Department X, all staff' without thinking that it will be read by 1,000 different people, all of whom will react differently.

quote:

---

Yes I'm aware of the improvements Kodak have made John but there are a lot of Eastman Kodak Pink films from earlier years for sale.

---

...and a lot of pink original and intermediate elements (not just Eastman but Agfa, Ansco and Eastern Bloc stocks too) which are proving difficult or impossible for archivists to restore. Just because film stock manufacturers think they have the dye stability issue sorted now dosen't take away the fact that there is still a legacy problem.

I think I can comment authoritatively here. Look at my picture. I get fat jokes all the time - I have since I was in middle school. But I laugh right along with them, because:

A) I don't take myself that seriously.
B) They are based in truth, which makes them funny.
C) Some have been funny as hell.

Am I discriminated against -- have I been passed over for jobs or promotions because I'm fat? Probably. Do people judge me to behave in a way that is inconsistent with my actual personality or habits? Definitely. Tough luck. Any choice is discrimination, but that is what I consider freedom of association. If someone doesn't like me, for whatever reason, that's the last person I would want to force to be friendly with me.

We all want to be liked and accepted by everyone, but that's not the way it is in life. If the bleeding hearts think they're going to get into people's heads and change the way they think, to arrive at some sort of touchy-feely utopia -- it ain't gonna happen.

The truth hurts, boys and girls. To some, it hurts a little too much. To them, I say watch some John Wayne movies and get a backbone!

- Someone who knows all about sinking or swimming.

Years ago my grandmother was traveling with her 9 month old daughter (my mother). She was refused room after room after room. She had to sleep in her car in the freezing cold. Her husband was serving in the Navy off of the sea of Japan.

You see, my family is Italian. Many times, we are mistaken for Blacks Or Mexicans. What kind of backbone is appropriate here? Her husband was a decorated officer in the Navy, yet was refused a room to sleep in to get her and her baby out of the cold.

I am frequently pulled over by police. I am often mistaken for Mexican or even sometimes Middle Eastern persuasion. Three times in the last ten years I have been forced to the ground and cuffed. NOT for doing anything wrong, but for only looking like I might be a criminal. I have never been convicted of anything. My only guilt is that I have a darker skin coler than most swedish people.

Intolerance is not always easy to roll with. Sometimes it results in basic constitutional civil rights being violated, and sometimes results in violence, civil unrest, and even death.

I applaud anyone who can deal with it when it is directed at them. However, it is still inappropriate.

Mary and Joseph were denied room at the inn. That will continue to happen. You have to deal with it.

Incidentally, there are not degrees of backbone. You either have it, or you don't. I can't transmute it to you, but John Wayne helps.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

How does a policy of "creating an environment where every individual feels part of the team and is encouraged to contribute to their fullest potential" turn into an invitation to become gay? IMHO, you don't "become" gay --- you either are or you aren't. All I'm being asked to do is to respect those who might be different from me, which is my moral upbringing anyway.

If that isn't an invitation to join the ranks, I don't know what is.

I've known and worked with about 30 - 40 gay people during my career. By and large, one of the things they actively do is try to recruit new people -- whether it's a choice or not. Getting people to "come out" is definitely on their agenda.

This is not discrimination, it's observation.

Regardless of the picture of moral innocence and ambiguity the gay activists have painted for the public over the past 20 years, maybe the question should be put to you: how can a company actively promote something like a "coming out day", and not be looked upon as if encouraging it?

Obviously, the company isn't interested in making people who morally oppose or find this behavior offensive feel welcome, accepted, or "a part of the team".

I have known, worked with, been friends with and interacted with many gay people, and I have never seen nor heard of any recruiting. I mean no offense to you personally, but I think that you are grossly misinformed about the gay community and homosexuality in general.

In basic training, like in prison, the basic trainees take very quick group showers. God how everyone hated those! You get filthy and have less than 10 minutes to shower...so no one pays attention to anyone else...unless one is a homosexual who wants to get seriously hurt! And we had just that...a homosexual who tried to use his sord on someone in the shower. Needless to say that the homosexual recieved a pretty good blanket party (having the living crap beat out of him) and then was discharged with a record!

This incident happened at Norton AFB, CA in the early 1990's. Unknown to everyone, we had a homosexual living in our barraks. Basically, this person was already in trouble for homosexuality and drug abuse. (This was before the don't ask, don't tell policy...homosexuality was punishable under the U.C.M.J.) The charges against this person were dropped because he turned snitch in a major drug case. So with charges being dropped, he given quarters in our barraks and no one knew he was queer, until....

One night, while I was in my room, this homosexual comes stumbling in my room. I figured it was just another drunk Airman, thought nothing of it, and threw him out. I did not know the guy at all. The following night I had just come home from work, was eating dinner and doing laundry when my neighbor, who shall remain nameless, came running down the hallway in his nightcloths. I did not know what was going on, but my neighbor yelled at me to guard the homosexual while he got the C.Q. and S.P.s. Turns out that the homosexual's room key was also a master key for the barraks. Anyhow, my nameless neighbor was sleeping in his room to wake up and find the homosexual standing over him in his birthday suite spanking his monkey! The queer used his master key to gain admittance into both my, and my neighbor's rooms.