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Author Topic: Just To P.O. The Cops Some People Do Interesting Stuff Pravin Ratnam Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 844 From: Atlanta, GA,USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 06-17-2004 12:12 PM                     Observe how the judge conducts his cases prior to your case. If the judge does not seem to listen to reason, see if you can get away with a defensive driving course as a substitute for the ticket. Defensive driving rules vary from state to state. But if you do want to fight it 1) You probably do not have to request a discovery of logs and other stuff. The cop is supposed to bring that to the courtroom to back up his testimony. If the device is laser, check to see before the court date if laser is an approved device in your state. If you got caught by radar, then it is likely an approved device already. An approved device is something that a cop could use in testimony without having to defend its accuracy. The only defense you have with the use of an approved device is that the cop had improper logs or that he wasn't in proper position to aim the device at your car(the second part is very tricky to use in an argument). 2) Never admit you think you went 45 in a 40 or 50 in a 40 to prove the cop was wrong on the 15 above the speed limit. You will be found guilty. Instead, stick to the assertion that you were not going 55. You are not obligated to testify. Use what you were going to testify with as questions for the cop instead and make him answer them. The only reason you would admit to possibly going over the speedlimit is to get the judge to reduce the speed violation in lieu of dismissing the ticket. 3) Be prepared for the cop to lie and don't lose your poise if he does. I have had it happen to me twice in GA. One of the cases, the cop was busted months later in the famous Goldclub strip club case where he fixed tickets. A few months later. He was outright lying about facts of the case. I used the lies to my advantage because he contradicted himself. In the second case, I lost it because the judge was a moron. It was obvious to everyone he was lying (he did not notify me of my right to calibration on the spot, but he claimed he did after I cited the law and after he agreed with my testimony which contradicts his later assertion.) Good luck.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 06-17-2004 12:17 PM                        Sorry to hear that Scott. How did you get nailed? If it was by radar, there are quite a few ways to get a radar citation thrown out. Some examples: In many states the radar has to have documentation of current (usually daily) calibration. Most cops don't bother with the calibration, let along documenting it. If there's no calibration documentation, any citations issued based on that radar unit that day will be thrown out upon challenge. Also, many states require that radar only be used on single lane highways and roads. If you get cited by radar on a multi-lane road in such a state, the citation can be tossed out if you argue it. If the speed determination was done by tailing you (by car or aircraft) or using a visual system like VASCAR, you may have a harder time beating the citation. BTW, given your age and driving record, most insurance companies will give you the benefit of the doubt on a first-time speeding violation, i.e. no rate increase. I know GEICO for one doesn't do that, but most companies (like my old State Farm policy) will cut some slack in a situation like yours.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-17-2004 01:00 PM                        I once got out of a ticket because the officer who wrote the ticket wrote the wrong infraction number on the ticket. It's called dumb luck.  |  IP: Logged Dave Williams Wet nipple scene Posts: 1836 From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-17-2004 01:12 PM                        I have gotten out of every citation I have ever been issued, simply on dumb technicalities, such as wrong citation numbers, wrong dates, wrong description of car, wrong dl number, etc. You MUST file for discovery before the hearing date. If you wait until the hearing date, you will not know what you are up against. If you file for discovery before hand, you will know EVERYTHING that the officer will bring to the hearing, and nothing else can be brought to the hearing that is NOT in the discovery information. If the officer brings anything else that is not listed in discovery, you can ask for at LEAST a 10 day delay in the hearing OR that the information not be admitted to the hearing as it was not in discovery. The prosecution whether it be criminal or civil MUST list all evidence in discovery before hand. The defense does not have to do so, as they are not the accuser, but the accused. If after discovery you find that fighting it may not be a good idea, you have another option, depending on the judge. I cannot remember the exact term, but it has to do with abayence (sic?). This is where you pay the fine and an administrative fee, and the ticket is not reported to your record or your insurance company. You are usually given six months to a year to be a good boy, and then the ticket is overturned, and the court keeps the money, and you get a clean record. That's all I have to offer, CIao Dave  |  IP: Logged Pravin Ratnam Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 844 From: Atlanta, GA,USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 06-17-2004 02:10 PM                     Yep Dave is correct and ignore my previous advice about discovery. Discovery can help in predetermining how strong your case is on the technicalities. I just thought that since the guy was so sloppy writing your ticket, why bother with the discovery, and you can question his accuracy in implementing the radar even if the radar itself was deemed accurate by the state. After all, a surgeon who uses accurate instruments can't avoid medical liability with the excuse his instruments are always accurate. Also, I think if you properly file for discovery and you don't get the documents, you can either ask for a continuance or request dismissal of the case. I have gotten out of 80% of my cases(i get a lot). Ironically, two losing cases were where I had the best arguments (and even a witness on one of them) which I think pissed the judge off.  |  IP: Logged Jason Burroughs Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 654 From: Allen, TX Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-17-2004 02:22 PM                     I'm not sure about your neck of the woods Scott, but in Texas there's a couple of ways to get take care of a speeding ticket, other than contesting it. 1. Deffered Adjuication - usually about 6 months on probation, no more tickets - it gets dismissed and is not reported to the insurance agencies. 2. Deffensive Driving courses - State law requires them to be 6 hours in legnth and cost a minumum of $35, but no only does your ticket get dismissed, you can acutally get a DISCOUNT on your insurance. You can only use Defensive Driving for a disconunt/ticket dismissal once every 3 years. Insurance discount can be up to 10%. In both these cases you still have to pay court fees (the Man is STILL going to stick it to you) but they're considerably cheaper than paying the ticket. Contesting a ticket is often a gamble. However in Texas if the citing officer dosen't show up to court, it gets dismissed. But you have to deal with the hassle of showing up in court, or hiring an attorney to do so for you.  |  IP: Logged Ben Holley Film Handler Posts: 65 From: Texas Registered: Feb 2004 posted 06-17-2004 03:25 PM                    I have a friend who got out of a ticket by asking the judge when the last time the officer logged that he had his radar gun calibrated...may work if the officer doesnt come prepaired  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-17-2004 04:44 PM                     If a cop asks me how fast I was going I try to give him a specific number. Let's say you're doing 42/35. Tell him flat out, "37 MPH." He'll say, "No, it was 42." Your next response should be, "Oh, I'm sorry. Does that mean you have to give me a ticket?" Of course, the answer will be, "Yes.", but now you have the room to ask for leniency. (Or give an excuse. ) I did this exact thing on I-85 going through Virginia. I was doing 85/65. When I got to the "plea for leniency" (excuse) part I told him that I had just bought a new car. My old car was a Dodge Neon and the new one is a Mazda 626. I said, "I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention to my speed but this new car doesn't feel like it's going as fast as my old one. He told me that since he'd already radioed-in for the traffic stop, he said he was obliged to give me a ticket but I got out of it with only a 74/65 citation. Only a $60 fine and no points. (He said that they don't report points for out of state licenses unless they are +10/n.) I was on my way to a call at the time but on the way home I drove by the County Courthouse and paid the fine in cash within a couple of days. I figured I'd get away as clean as I could.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-17-2004 05:53 PM                        Teaser Topic! Bill, please rephrase your year old topic that, ummm, Brad missed!  |  IP: Logged Dean Kollet Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 591 From: Florida State University Registered: Jul 2003 posted 06-17-2004 06:22 PM                     be careful about the technicalities....and do it right... you can't go into court and say you were speeding and say "well he said my car was green and it's blue..." b/c you said you were speeding. Don't admit guilt I've also heard a little trick about re-scheduling....basically you call the courthouse and tell them you are ill or unable to make it and ask them to reschedule it...the cop might not check up on the next date and if he isn't there, ticket is bye-bye...just what I've heard, I probably wouldn't try it myself...  |  IP: Logged Bill Carter Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Minneapolis, Minnesota Registered: Sep 1999 posted 06-17-2004 06:58 PM                     As mentioned above, requesting the calibration documentation for a radar traffic stop can work. How often the calibration must be done varies from state to state. In some places, it is indeed daily.  |  IP: Logged William T. Parr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 823 From: Cedar Park, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-17-2004 08:41 PM                     Just do not show up to court with the words "FUCK DA POLICE" tatooed across your forehead. Also what means of determining speed did the Occifer.. I mean Lucifer use to detrmine yiur speed? If it was a radar gun, how was it used. Was there any other cars or moving activity going on around you that you might be aware of? IE A Cra travaelling in the opposite direction that could have been speeding? Were was the "Bacon Wrap" when he determined you were speeding? Was he in the same lane of travel? The Opposite Lane, or on a side street? Although it is after the fact now, in the future if you are pulled over. Question the officer about his means of determing speed. If it is in fact a radar gun, ask to see the gun itself an take not of the Make and Model. Then question the officer on his extened use of such said piece of equipment. Noting things such as how does one calibrate the unit to determine speed. Then get in conatct with the manufacturer to see if the officer knows what he is doing with it or not. Then you can make him look like a n idiot in court on top of getting out of a ticket. My Brother and I have had numerous tickets dismissed in the past here in Texas due to the incompetence of the office when using a radar gun. Gets to be quiet humerous some times.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 06-18-2004 01:01 AM                     Topic title altered to suit whim of moderator. The question is....if the title was OK for 13 months, why is it now unsatisfactory???  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-18-2004 07:31 AM                        I wish you better luck; I've never gotten out of one even if not guilty! When the radar guns 1st came out in the early nationwide 55 mph days, I got a ticket for 72 in a 55 zone. I was driving 55. I gathered all my info, did my research, brought out the cases of incorrect readings on that model gun, asked when the gun was last calibrated (got a shrug from the officer). At that point, the judge interrupted me & said "Well Mr. Hooper, if radar didn't work, I don't think they'd have it." Ka-ching. I got a local ticket for 57 in a 55 zone. No way out, & the state didn't want anything to do with disputing it. Driving at night 55, with a car on my rear bumper running bright lights. Slow down to 50 so they'll go around, he stays. Slow down to 45, nothing, then 40, the blue lights come on. "Mr. Hooper, you're driving sort of slow & erratically." Blow up the balloon, walk the line, sit in the cop car, while other cops arrive & shoot the crap with the other guys & laugh & loaf around, after about 50 minutes "Well, we're gonna let you go this time because you didn't fail the breathalyzer, but I have to give you this ticket for your tail light out." Drive away with the cops following, & when the cops turn off, pull over & check - all tail lights OK. Cops have hard jobs, but they attract some people who deservedly give the group a reputation as bad as lawyers. Someone used the phrase "Little Hitlers", & it's stuck as an efficient & accurate profile. Good luck Scott!  |  IP: Logged Rachel Craven Madam Moderator Posts: 2190 From: Pensacola, FL Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-18-2004 07:42 AM                     quote: Scott Norwood With Massachusetts insurance rates being high, this could easily cost me $1500 or more over the next 6-7 years (the ticket itself is $150), so any ideas would be appreciated. Scott, good news! My one speeding ticket that I have ever gotten I got when I was still living in Mass. My insurance didn't go up a penny. That doesn't mean yours won't but its possible.  |  IP: Logged

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