my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Draft of Air Rule is Said to Exempt Many Old Plants (Page 3)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Author Topic: Draft of Air Rule is Said to Exempt Many Old Plants Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-28-2003 01:08 PM                     Gerard, now you know why I parked my "Breadbox" and I am going to get rid of that thing as soon as possible. As far as the F-250 is concerned, I only drive it now when I have to haul a load of shit to the dump or scrapyard. If I put 50 miles a month on that thing, I am lucky. Sure, it is a Diesel....but at least Diesel fuel is much cheaper than gasoline - for now. Maybe I can convert that thing to burn McDonald's french fry oil. There are some people doing that. So if you smell a big french fry on the freeway, it might be me. North Dakota is hot on corncobs. Josh was telling me his mom tried a tank of that stuff and the engine didn't like it at first until it got used to it. Then it ran just fine. Some people tell me it damages the engines. Maybe the older ones if it does. The valves in some of those older engines were not metallurgically designed to handle it where the newer engine valves are. As you know, a Diesel engine will burn practically anything as long as it is clean fuel and a liquid. However, I have heard someone recommended a mixture of Diesel fuel and gasoline under circumstances. The mixture ratio was very high favoring diesel fuel. (maybe something like 1 gallon of gasoline with 20 gallons of Diesel) but I cannot be certain on that. If you have a Voltswagon Diesel, insult the owner's manual and I think it says something about that.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-28-2003 01:29 PM                        General Motors is developing fuel cell technology to power automobiles in Honeoye Falls, NY, just south of Rochester: GM Fuel Cell Research Honda has a hybrid offering 51 miles per gallon: Honda Hybrid And Honda's fuel cell vehicle: Honda Fuel Cell And here is Toyota's hybrid Prius at 52mpg: Toyota Hybrid  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-28-2003 01:46 PM                     John, didn't they do that with the city busses in Los Angeles 10 years ago? They were powered (as I understand) by LOX and Hydrogen. I also understand someone considered them "unsafe" in an accident and the practice was discontinued. The hybrid autos....gasoline/electric.....that technology has been around for at least 65 or more years. But then it was Diesel Electric. There was also an electric car that was manufactured somewhere around 1904, I think. 99 years ago....  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-28-2003 03:58 PM                        The Bush administration seems to be supporting Fuel Cell technology over gasoline/electric hybrid. Trouble is, it takes energy to make the pure hydrogen and oxygen required, so I have a hard time seeing how it truly will result in less pollution and more energy independence. It certainly will require a massive new fuel production/delivery infrastructure. As you can see, fuel-efficient hybrid technology is already in use, and allows over 50 miles per gallon using existing fuel supplies. My next car will be a hybrid.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-28-2003 08:01 PM                     Hydrogen is produced industrially as a gas or a liquid by several methods. These include: Steam reforming, a reaction of natural gas (methane) or other light hydrocarbons (ethane or propane) with steam in the presence of a catalyst. Electrolysis of water, a process which transforms water into its elemental parts through the use of an electric current. Ammonia dissociation, the breaking up of ammonia into its simpler components, namely hydrogen and nitrogen. Partial oxidation, a reaction of hydrocarbons (such as natural gas, naphtha, petroleum coke or coal) with oxygen to produce hydrogen and carbon monoxide. In addition, hydrogen is obtained as a by-product of some refining and chemical production processes. Liquid oxygen is also made by using a special air compressor to get the pressure up to 3,000 psi. Oxygen separates from nitrogen and can easily separated since one is heavier that the other. That's how we made LOX on board ship for the aviators.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-28-2003 09:39 PM                        Paul --- all those methods require considerable energy, or have undesirable byproducts, and would require massive new infrastructure to produce and distribute in quantity. Will they really be a better choice than just using gasoline more efficiently?  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 08-28-2003 11:57 PM                     Maybe for the hydrogen. But the oxygen, the only energy required was to drive a 25 HP electric motor. (I think that was what it was in our LOX plant.) We made huge quantities of LOX. More than anyone ever needed. We had to vent the stuff over the side. During the Viet Nam thing, the USS Oriskany (my ship - an 888 foot 27,000 ton rust bucket) we were the "Lox Cart of the 7th Fleet. The LOX plants at Clark AFB, Cubi point, and the rest of the Navy aircraft carriers in our task force were broken. The quality of our LOX was breathing quality for the US Navy pilots and US Air Force pilots. As far as the rest is concerned, you are probably correct. I think in several years, some of the bugs would be worked out. It would be expensive at first, but over the years the prices will come down. Just like a VCR 20 years ago was well over $1,000 - and today you can get them for about 100 bucks.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-29-2003 10:37 AM                     PetroCanada has been producing a blended gas with ethanol for many years  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-29-2003 12:06 PM                        I can think of better uses for Ethanol. And so can Bob Maar!  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 08-30-2003 12:26 AM                        Sunoco also cuts their fuel with up to 10% ethanol. It used to be nice being able to run their fuel in your plane. BTW, the LA fuel cell buses were Ballard buses.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 02:58 AM                        Ethanol blends have been available at the pumps in various places in the US for a while. They started popping up I think *before* the late-70s gas crisis, more a part of the general energy conservation/alternative engergy sources thing that sort of mainstreamed about '75 or '76. That was also when the first stickers reading "NO ALCOHOL in our gasoline" seen on the sides of many pumps began to appear. "Gasohol" was said to do all sorts of bad things.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-01-2003 03:18 AM                        quote: "Gasohol" was said to do all sorts of bad things. Ethanol, will eat through many types of polymers. That's fine in most automobiles since very few actually contain non-metallic components in their fuel systems. It doesn't go over to well in other applications such as lawn equipment or aircraft that often contain polymer based fuel system components.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 09-01-2003 03:30 AM                     William, I have been burning that 10% gasoline/ethanol crap for years. Never had a bit of trouble with it. Besides that, the "Moonshiners" were using alcohol as engine fuel during the days of Alcohol Prohibition in the 1920 - 1933 era. An interesting note I discovered today. The Crown Vic Police cars have (or had) an option for a 4.6L V8 Natural Gas engine. Some of the standard features were: 1. Fast fuel fill. (3 to 4 minutes) 2. 4 fuel tanks. 3. Heavy-duty Natural Gas vehicle cooling. 4. 2.73:1 axle ratio 5. Single exhaust system 6. Steel driveshaft 7. Deep-well trunk (14 cubic feet) 8. Remote decklid release 9. Electronic AM/FM radio. 10. Electronic digital clock with dimming feature. Oh, Gee, Golly Gosh! I just gotta get me one of these. A 14 cubic foot trunk and a digital clock! Wow!  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 06:30 AM                        Morgan +8 automobiles were available since the late 70s equipped with a V8 that ran on profane gas. At that time, fueling locations were far between in the US. I suppose you could make up some kind of adapter & keep it under the seat so you could just drive up to the local hardware store & buy all of their Bernz-O-Matic cylinders & dump them into the Moggie.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 07:59 AM                        Paul--I'm surprised that they didn't list "steering wheel," "brakes," and "can be driven in both forward _and_ reverse!" among those features. As for fuel cells--I've heard the same thing that John has--that the energy required to separate hydrogen from other materials (often from natural gas!) is nontrivial and creates pollution problems of its own. Thus, while cars powered by fuel cells don't create pollution themselves, their use does result in pollution and consumption of (probably) oil/gas/coal/etc. Do hybrid cars use lead-acid batteries? If so, then those would create some significant disposal issues....  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.