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Author Topic: CD prices coming down soon Edward Jurich Master Film Handler Posts: 305 From: Las Vegas USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 09-08-2003 12:44 PM                     There used to be an intermodulation distortion spec for equipment back in the analog days. This spec is no longer used. Intermodulation was usually measured by mixing more than one tone together, then measuring the distortion of each tone at the output of the equipment. Someone once told me that there would be no intermodulation distortion if the harmonic distortion is .05%. Well, it's easy to get .05% harmonic distortion on a signal if run through a filter and if you enjoy listening to a tone it's great. But if you are sampling bits of a complex wave (audio) then there is lost information and results in some form of distortion. The most common is caused by using low sampling rates resulting in a cymbal or crescendo sounding like shattering glass on a wall. I would like to see some form of intermodulation test on digital audio equipment to see what it's really doing. I know that burst tests were made on some "compressed digital" microwave systems used for audio transmission that resulted in ringing. I enjoy listening to CD's. But, I enjoy listening to analog records as much if not more for the quality of sound. I can put up with some surface noise to enjoy good audio. It'll be great not having to pay as much for CD's, I might even buy more.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-08-2003 05:15 PM                     The Apple store and other pay-per-download sites are mainly selling convenience rather than quality. Sure, Apple's "I-Tunes" may feature AAC encoding, but at a mere 128kb/s data rate it should not make the claim of "CD Quality". That's also why I think it is kind of laughable the RIAA has put up such a fuss about the whole music downloading thing anyway. Most MP3 files found on the 'net are of significantly lesser quality than that of LCPM 2.0 on CD. Many sound like crap or at least no better than what you hear on radio. I can often get a better result attaching an MD player to my Yamaha receiver and recording stuff off the music only satellite channels of my DSS dish. If the music is something I really like I'll go and buy the CD. But the music industry just hasn't been putting much out there worth buying lately. Suing downloaders and other nonsense like that is only going to make matters worse for the music industry. They have to hit it from a positive end and make the CDs attractive to buy. They have to compete in the marketplace. Right now they are largely not doing it. The music industry must embrace new formats like SACD 5.1 and DVD-A's MLP process. They have to bundle goodies in with the discs. Remember vinyl LPs in the 1970's? They often came with big posters and decals. Not so these days. There's a lot the industry can do to make CDs more cool to buy. But they're trying to stay conservative and status quo with the current business model. And that 20 year old business model is no longer relevant. They can either change/adapt or go out of business. The Internet and who they sue will make little difference on that outcome.  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-08-2003 06:15 PM                     Thats true. But I never said they were CD quality. I know they're nowhere near that. BUT I don't make enough money to go out and buy the whole John Mayer album when I only like one of his songs on it. Apple does a great job encoding these. They arent being encodied by a 14 year old who wouldnt know how to read a Frequency Responce chart. I know i'm getting lower quality, But the convienence is worth it. Also, if its an artist I really like, I buy the CD. If I really really like 'em i'll buy the DVD. (You guys gotta check out the BNL compalation DVD,It's awsome). I agree that cds should have more extras. I especially love the ones that come with bonus DVDs on them. Ben Folds Live has a great DVD bundled with the first few thousand copies.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-08-2003 06:47 PM                     Last month the Virgin Mega-store here in Times Square had a great sale on CDs and DVDs. They had some great titles on sale for $10.00 each. With music going at $19 dollars plus, I hardly bought albums. During this sale I bought about 19 albums.  |  IP: Logged Tim Turner Film Handler Posts: 87 From: Chula Vista, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-08-2003 06:48 PM                     Those songs a iTunes...can they be burned onto CDRs to make audio CDs?  |  IP: Logged Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 09-08-2003 11:26 PM                        There are tons of CD titles (mainly midline product) that have been available for some time at $8 to $10. If you can't find this locally, order by mail. J&R Music World has tons of titles in this price range, including great classic recordings like "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis at $8, which is the best-selling jazz title of all time. Since newly remastered versions of the Dylan catalog are coming out next week, they have all the older versions at cheap prices also. Check the following (although there's much more in the store than on the website): $8 CDs from JandR But I do agree with those who state that industry is still putting out mainly junk. I don 't think this is totally the fault of the major labels, since the independent labels actually put out the majority of releases (even though they have the minority of sales) and they're not really putting out anything all that interesting either. I think it's a reflection of the times in which we live and the influence of MTV and rap.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-09-2003 01:16 AM                        quote: Suing downloaders and other nonsense like that is only going to make matters worse for the music industry. They have to hit it from a positive end and make the CDs attractive to buy. They have to compete in the marketplace. Right now they are largely not doing it. They ARE competing in the marketplace by suing downloaders. As Mike has illustrated, higher quality is not an issue to what may be the largest portion of music "consumers", & downloading low-quality is fine with them. The rights holders of the music also own the rights to that music, they invested in it, they should get their money from it if it's being "consumed". If folks find a way to acquire it without paying for it & it's owned by someone else, that's theft, the owners sue.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-09-2003 01:25 AM                     quote: Thats true. But I never said they were CD quality Sorry, Mike. I didn't mean to suggest this was a claim on your part. I was commenting on the inaccurate hype spun out by just about every maker of an audio compression codec that their product is "CD Quality". Apple has claimed it about their low bitrate iTunes AAC files. Most MP3 encoders will claim "CD Quality" at a mere 128kb/s or 192kb/s, which is just plain baloney. Even with a modest stereo system one can hear the difference. I think the quality area is one point the IDIOTS in the music industry are very clearly missing. Hell, they don't even have to do 5.1 music either. Just do songs in 2-channel MLP at 24-bit 192kHz resolution, or 2-channel DSD for Super Audio CD. The music file would be gigantic and far too cumbersome to download at all. This, incidentally, is one reason why D-VHS "D-Theater" movie tapes have next to no copy protection on them at all. Give customers a high quality tangible product with data bandwidth that would choke any server. quote: Those songs a iTunes...can they be burned onto CDRs to make audio CDs? Yes. If you own a Mac. The iTunes application is a Mac-only thing (unlike the iPod which works with both Macs and PCs). I suppose if there are any other CD burning apps out there which understand MPEG-2 AAC (Advanced Audio Codec) then you might be in luck on the PC end.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-09-2003 02:38 AM                     Bobby, if the music industry would start releasing 5.1 mixes, I would most definitely turn my interests back more into music. With the crap on the market right now, it's a waste. I have some D-Theater tapes and from everything I have read they DO have a copy protection on them. I don't have a second D-VHS deck to attempt to test this though.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-09-2003 08:04 AM                     Welcome back Claude, I have always enjoyed reading your posts and find your comments genuine and well thought out. In regard to the digital sound recordings, there is a new term which raises ones ear lobes, ALIASING. This is the result of interference between the high frequency sound and the sampling rate of the computer. Not unlike the way a radio tunes frequency by beating the local oscillator with the incoming signal, the sum and difference frequencies resulting from this ALIASING are present in the output of the Digital to Analog Converter. These frequencies can be filtered out but the filters are non-discriminating and take the sound frequencies with the beat frequencies. The resulting sound is discernably different from the purely analog sounds of the vinyl disc or analog magnetic tape recordings. KEN  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-09-2003 05:41 PM                     1: Copying and trading music is not theft. It is a copyright violation, still acrime - but despite what the RIAA likes to prosletize it still isn't theft. 2: You don't own any music (either on CD or via Itunes), you buy the right to use it. (Unless you're a musician or publisher etc., and you do own some music...) Itunes gives you a quite limited license to use the song, just try selling one. CD prices were proven to be fixed in the US courts, and Universal and others had to pay quite a large penalty. This great "discount" drops the price to what they had used as absolute bottom price during the collusion period, any store selling for $10.00 or less was blacklisted and would not get any CDs from the majors. So, Universal Music, screw you. Too little, too late.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-09-2003 06:17 PM                     quote: if the music industry would start releasing 5.1 mixes, I would most definitely turn my interests back more into music. With the crap on the market right now, it's a waste I feel the same way. However, there is a lot of foot dragging on the part of most music acts for doing anything in 5.1, much less releasing on higher quality formats like SACD and DVD-A. I was simply offering the fact that DVD-A and SACD both offer very high quality encoding/playback options for 2 channel material --just to take away the artists' excuse for not using the format. Some performers try to argue surround sound doesn't fit music. Yet they'll release music video and concert DVDs that almost always have 5.1 tracks in DD or even DTS. Others make a valid point about the problems of portability with 5.1 music. Few car stereo systems can play back anything in DD, DTS, SACD or DVD-A's MLP format. Same goes for boom boxes and small headset-based players. But all of that would change if the artists gave us good, current music releases in 5.1. I think it is bullshit that nearly all the DVD-A and SACD offerings in rock music are 20 and 30 year old titles. DVD-A and SACD have no chance at all of becoming mainstream music listening formats until NEW studio releases are issued day-and-date with standard CD releases. It was the same requirement for DVD-Video. It had to deliver new movies the same time as they appeared on VHS (and be available for rent). Anyway, I was getting off on a bit of a tangent there. But that's what I feel are the basic problems going on in 5.1 music. Another problem against DVD-A and SACD is that it affords no convenience to the end user. It is impossible for me to burn any "favorite songs" discs with no filler the way I can with my standard CD collection. Most any CD you buy will have at best only a mere 3 or 4 good songs on it. For long trips, I prefer burning a few CDs with nothing but good stuff so I don't have to switch out discs so often. I feel the music industry has to accomodate this somehow, but I don't feel that low FM radio quality MP3's and AAC files are the way to do it.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 09-10-2003 01:50 PM                     Bring back Quadraphonic!!  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 09-10-2003 03:18 PM                        Thank you for you very kind comments, Kenneth. Except for Digital Cinema in theatres which I have not seen because no theatres in Hawaii features it yet, I love Digital! I have always enjoyed digital sound on CD and also on movie soundtracks both in theatres and at home for years. Right now, almost all of my professional images are shot with a Fuji S1 digital camera and I will very soon upgrade it to the new generation Olympus E1 digital system. Regarding quad sound, I think they were two systems. One was a matrix system like theatrical Dolby Stereo and home Pro Logic and the other one was discreet. I do not remember what they were called but I do recall buying the hardware, discs and tapes to listen to the sound. I was not very impressed with the matrix system but the discreet was very good. As far as I recall, the only way to play back discreet sound was from a special quad eight track player. The sound was indeed very discreet and purposely mixed that way and if I heard it today, I will not like it because of the artificial manner it was created. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-11-2003 10:10 PM                     iTunes Music Store will be ported to Windows by years end. They give you more "Personal Music Management" rights than most other "buy-and-download" services. Once youdownload and pay forthe music, You can burn it to Cds, and send it to iPods without any trouble, as long as your intention is personal use. I agree, I can't stand that every new audio format is touted as CD quality. However, 128 AAC is signifcantly better than 128 MP3. I do wish Apple would offer 256 or 320 kbps AAC dowloads.  |  IP: Logged

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