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Author Topic: Computer Won't Start David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-12-2004 11:04 AM                        Regarding activation, I gotta agree with Daryl. Subscriptions would be suicide for MS. Activation is just a way to cut down on pirating, nothing more. I hope. About reinstalls & activation: I've run into the situation with Office 2003 several times where it was running (activated) on a machine, which subsequently gets nuked and assigned to a new user. But reinstalled Office won't activate now because it knows it's already been activated (on the "old" machine). Note that uninstalling Office first does not deactivate it either. Anyway, a 5 minute call to MS is all it takes to get around this. They've given me new activation keys over the phone, no questions asked, every time I've needed one.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-12-2004 11:42 AM                        The last time I did a clean XP install, the first thing I did after finishing it was to put Zone Alarm on and then download the Windows Updates. I then took the machine offline and installed Ad-Aware. Despite only having been online for around three minutes, Ad-Aware picked up 2 'data miner' programs which neither Zone Alarm nor Windows Firewall was able to prevent from installing themselves!  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 09-12-2004 12:54 PM                     I, too, have done a few Windows installs where bad things were able to get through during install. This even after taking the precaution of not being attached to the network during OS install until it was time to download the current virus update before downloading all of the Windows updates. Don't forget that AdAware has a new version out: AdAware SE v1.04 Here's a list of software with known XPsp2 issues.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-12-2004 04:12 PM                        Is everyone really having that much trouble with SP2? The firewall component will generally tell you if something is knocking at your door and let you decide whether or not to unblock it (a one-time dialog if you so choose). SP2 seems to do a very good job of evaluating what apps you already have installed that might be problematic with the firewall (ICQ for example) and automatically adjusts for it. Even if SP2 doesn't identify the app that needs a f/w exception, you just go in and create the exception, same as you would with any firewall. Or am I missing something? (Wouldn't be the first time.) Anyway I haven't run into a single problem with SP2 or the f/w yet that required me to do anything special, either at home or at work where I administer ~25 machines. The only problem we've had (which I mentioned before) is a SSH product from Juniper Networks stopped working because SP2 won't allow localhost to be assigned to any IP but 127.0.0.1, and MS has a hotfix for that. Adam, that's not really a list of software known not to work with SP2. It's a general procedure for making firewall adjustments to allow programs blocked by the default firewall configuration to start working again. Wouldn't that information apply to any firewall, not just SP2? Both AdAware and SpyBot will "complain" about something immediately following a clean XP install, before you ever access a network. The fact that they report "problems" after a clean install doesn't mean you've been infected with something. They're offering to clean up what they treat as "loose ends" with the default XP configuration. I always let them "fix" whatever they complain about and that's the end of it.  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 09-12-2004 04:47 PM                     I don't know what page you're looking at, David, but the one I linked to is titled "Programs that are known to experience a loss of functionality when they run on a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer" and has a list of software and their corresponding symptoms when running under XPsp2. Yes, these symptoms could apply to any firewall. There were three links to Knowledge Base documents that I honestly didn't bother reading because I'm not having any problems with SP2. I just provided the link for anyone who was.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-12-2004 07:22 PM                     I installed XP SP2 on my aunt's new Compaq laptop and haven't had any problems with it (R3220US model with XP Pro). However, I had her laptop download the 200+ MB patch behind my router, which offers at least some hardware firewall protection. I did anti-viral and anti-spyware scans before and after installing the service pack. Perhaps it might be overkill, but I feel a little more safe having both a Cable/DSL router and personal software firewalls installed. The motive is just to make it as much a pain in the ass as possible for a cracker to gain entry. And then even if he does, he's not going to find any data worth stealing or copying. It would end up being a real nice waste of time for the scumbag.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-12-2004 08:04 PM                        Like Dave, I've never had a problem getting a new activation code. As far as I know it's their policy to give a new activation code no matter what (except if there's been an insane amount of activation attempts in a short period of time). Many of the SP2 complaints are from people who don't know what they need to do with the outgoing firewall settings. Ironically, many of these people are the same people that complain about security holes in Microsoft products. That's not to say that SP2 doesn't 'cause' some legitimate problems with some pieces of third part software. However, many of these third party apps are having problems because they are relying on blatant flaws in the Windows operating system to be present. BUT! That's not to say there aren't legitimate problems with SP2. It's hard to avoid with such a massive piece of software that must work with literally millions of other applications. In such cases where there is a problem Microsoft is fast to work with those companies and provide fixes. As for infections/etc during install. That's where an up-to-date slip streamed install disc comes in. There's no need to connect a machine to a newtwork before it is up-to-date.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 09-13-2004 09:29 AM                        Apologies to Adam - I took a quick look at the linked page but didn't scroll down far enough. Stupid oversight on my part. Does look like normal firewall issues though. I agree with everything Daryl said. MS was routinely condemned over security flaws pre-SP2. Now they plug most of the holes and they're condemned (by some) for "breaking" apps that used to work (but which only worked because they were written to take advantage of the holes in the OS that shouldn't have existed in the first place). Anyway, SP2 seems mostly like a good thing and yes, people should be careful before installing it, but the benefits outweigh the risks for the vast majority of us. BTW Daryl, your knowledge of this stuff amazes me. I'm a half-assed network admin who knows about 1/4 of what you do and I still manage to get by. That makes you a freakin' IT genius in comparison.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-13-2004 11:57 AM                    I was reluctant to jump to the conclusion that a virus (or other "malware") involved after the machine was online just one evening but I am beginning to think that may in fact be the case. I did go ahead and install SP2 just to get it over with and see what happens (and also with so many system files being replaced if any are corrupt they might be among those replaced). I also bought an MS router/firewall, MN700. A friend who does this for a living found them to be more robust than the other brands you see piled up in stores; I have one here at work. CompUSA seems to be dumping them at ever lower and lower prices. Under $30 now. At work (w98SE) it's been fine. At home the install program says there are known issues with this version of the OS (which I presume means SP2 although how it would know to anticipate this I do not know). Downloaded update from MS site. It installs, runs, and is functional yet after a while the connection peters out. This happens several times. Compared to work DSL which is an "always on" type the home DSL is a PPPoE connection (not sure if that matters) and has been fairly reliable. Connection was solid when I plugged back into it directly by-passing the router. So something is up there but no way to tell if it's just crappy software or a virus. I also put on Ad Aware and deleted a couple of suspicous things. The other thing that makes me suspect a possible virus is how long after booting it takes before being able to do anything. The system has seemingly settled and few if any HD accesses are happening yet a good 30-45 seconds take place before it's responsive. And now, since the latest changes, on each boot I am getting this weird message from the "Dr Watson" utility which seems to be telling me that it's crashed. Often I cannot do anything til I kill whatever Dr Watson process is still running.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-13-2004 12:26 PM                        Thanks Dave. Really, I just make the up as I go. Steve, the router claimed it wasn't compatible with your version of Windows? That's screwed up. Was it possibly a router configuration program that wasn't compatible? Not that it really matters I suppose. (edit: only Microsoft would do this) As for your actual router issue. Check to make sure it isn't set to drop the PPPoE connection after x number of seconds (usually a 600 second default). Setting the timeout to 0 (zero) usually disables the dropping the connection after a timeout period. If the connection is getting slow as time goes by though, that's probably not the cause (gee, I'm full of useless advice today). Try (temporarily) disabling the firewall features of the router. It sounds like the router is running out of available memory, which is caused by it having to deal with a lot of noise on the network. Judging by how fast you got hit with Sasser, it sounds like there is a lot of noise on your ISPs network. If it turns out to solve the slowdown issue, look for a firmware update for your router (edit: current firware is version 2.1.2.590) or look at buying another one. USRobotics makes a good router, as does D-Link. Linksys really isn't that bad either. BTW, I'm at a loss as to why you'd buy a Microsoft router after expressing how much you love Microsoft. Don't forget to enable WPA under the wireless settings of that beast. In fact, you may want to try totally disabling (if possible) the radio functions of the router/access point to see if you can get the router functionality to work better. Some devices with radios in it go crazy when they don't have anyone to talk to. The D-Link DWL-520 wireless PCI cards are bad for this.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2004 12:39 PM                        Microsoft might actually make quality routers. They tend to do pretty well with hardware that carries their name (even though they don't actually do the manufacturing). For years, I thought that the Microsoft Mouse was the best Microsoft product available, as it actually was a pretty good 2-button mouse. Then they added that damn scrolly wheel and things went to hell. Shortly thereafter, Windows ME was released. I never did like the MS Ergonomic Keyboards, but the early versions were indestructable. For a virus- and worm-free computing experience, Steve should install Windows 3.1 or, for even more fun, Microsoft Bob.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-13-2004 12:48 PM                        Bah, Windows 1.0 or 2.0 with Microsoft Bob (I'm sure you could convince it to run on 2.0). I can't believe I actually went to the Bob release party. I live by Microsoft mice. The version 1.0 and 1.1 Intellipoint Optical mice with scroll wheels were still pretty good (I can't believe I paid $200 for them, and then later $40). I've currently got a "Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1A" that's pretty good too. Especially since I buy them for about $8 each. I've also got a Microsoft Wireless Optical mouse with scroll & tilt wheel. It's a damn nice mouse. Some people don't like them though because they act up a lot if not installed correctly. The wireless software must be installed before connecting the base unit to the computer. If not it'll work like . In the event you didn't do it right the first time, you need to remove the mouse from the device manager before removing the mouse base and then installing the software, and then attaching the base. Looks like somebody had similar issues with the hardware here. Reviews at Amazon.com are pretty mixed too. Hmm, apparently you can't disable to firewall, so try to weaken it to see if it's a memory issue. Make sure you check the firmware version too... it seems that they've fixed a LOT of problems in the firmware. If all else fails, you've got two years of free tech support. You can contact them at (800) 936-3900.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-13-2004 01:10 PM                    Um...not sure I ever had Sasser. The MS removal tool did not find it. The MS firewall because my friend the networking guy dumped his Linksys in favor of it, saying that the old one had to be rebooted now and then but since getting the MS one not at all. No prices marked on them and I was expecting to pay $70-80 so I was pleasantly surprised (actually more worried I'd gotten the wrong item) when it was only $40. That was a few weeks back when I'd gotten one for work. Yesterday it was under $30. That update to the router software is supposed to include a firmware update.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-13-2004 01:25 PM                        My bad, I can never remember names. I told you the wrong one. http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.blaster.worm.html http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.mspx Did it actually install the update though? It probably did, but who knows.  |  IP: Logged Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 09-13-2004 01:49 PM                    Will look into that one, too; thanks. But I really have to wonder if the old OS does the job for me and isn't the target of virus writers as much why do I need to go to all this unnecessary trouble? Heck, I'm still using Office 95. No, I wouldn't go back to 3.1 because it blows chunks and there is little that can be done on it now. 98SE is like a somewhat less buggy 95. A lot of people recommend 2000 but I haven't tried it myself. Seems like the penetration of XP outside of offices and OEM deliveries is not all that great and not likely to sweep the land before the next edition is out. I presume my present experience is atypical and hopefully things will settle down. If it runs then I won't care anymore.  |  IP: Logged

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