|
|
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Earthquake & Killer Tsunamis, Christmas 2004
|
Ron Yost
Master Film Handler
Posts: 344
From: Paso Robles, CA
Registered: Aug 2003
|
posted 12-30-2004 06:37 PM
In that part of the world there's little that can be done to assure every dime (or every million) goes where it should. May as well stop expecting it right now. 'Accountability' has a whole different meaning (or little meaning at all) in much of the world, I'm afraid.
Liberal amounts of "backsheesh" need to be passed around to the 'right' people (in a long chain, sometimes) to get things done. It's been that way for many centuries. 'Officials' in some countries will willingly let their people starve to death if their personal coffers aren't being enriched in just the right manner, which often takes much time to figure out. The word inefficient doesn't come close to describing the 'operating systems' in a lot of the world.
The 'overhead' can be high .. even deadly, for relief-workers attempting to do only good, as has been the case many times in the past. Things just work differently, and far, far more slowly .. even under 'normal' conditions.
I say give all we can and hope -some- of it helps those desperate people who need it most, without expecting a thing in return. We'll only be disappointed when we don't get outpourings of gratitude (and we probably won't). Not much else that can be done, in my view, as we're not going to change their 'systems', as primitive and peculiar as they are.
Ron Yost
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 12-30-2004 07:13 PM
quote: David Stambaugh
What is an acceptable number to you today Tom? $500M? $2B? $20B? How about a blank check? To whom should the check be made out? Who's going to make sure the money goes where it's needed and doesn't line the pockets of crooked contractors and politicians?
This is where you're misunderstanding the meaning of "$35 Million in Aid." That doesn't mean we're dropping benjamins from a helicopter. Nor is anybody making out a check. That means they're providing $35 Million IN AID, whether that be food, water, clothing, or medical supplies. That doesn't go very far for very long in that kind of situation. Especially when disease starts spreading. Honestly, if we are spending more in one day for an inaguration ceremony, it DOES look like peanuts!
As for it going into the pockets of crooked politicians, that's exactly why I found it especially perplexing that the President kept saying "What we need to do is send CASH..." when that's what usually happens with cash.
quote:
" So far, the world community has pledged $250 million, with Spain offering the largest single contribution - $68 million.
Japan pledged $30 million, Britain $29 million, Australia $27.6 million and France $20 million. Many smaller nations sent what they could, including shipments of water and teams of medical professionals.
Cash donations also have been pouring in from individuals. And U.S. corporations have been generous, in particular New York's Pfizer drug company, which gave $10 million in cash and $25 million worth of medicines to the relief effort."
I DO applaude the increased reliefe EFFORTS, including the use of our sattelites to asssess the damage and organizing charities so that there's no trouble with people starting phony ones like after September 11th. In the strategic department, this country is unmatched. I'm also not saying that this should turn into a bidding war of which country can give the most money. Just that those who can, should.
Didn't mean to "flair up" anybody on here. Just thought I'd bring something to the table other than repeating the fact that "this is indeed a horrible tragedy and sad that many lives were lost." We all know that already. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
=TMP=
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
|
posted 12-30-2004 07:18 PM
The best reporting I have seen, covering global responses to the needs for disaster relief for the twelve nations stricken by the earthquake/tsunami disaster, has come from the BBC World news,carried by PBS-TV in the NJ-NY area.
Second best, but with added historical perspective by Margaret Warner (subbing for Jim Lehrer who's on vacation)leading a round table discussion with historians and political analysts, has been the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS-TV.
Can anyone explain why the Indian Prime Minister rejected international aid, saying "India can take care of its own?"
Was he being generous, suggesting the aid should go to even more needy countries? Or was he uninformed of the 7,500 Indian dead
(and the number rising?) I've seen videos of coastal Indian survivors complaining that the local politicos visit for photo ops but do not bring help. And a Western reporter saying the PM
flew over the coast but his plane was "unable to land." Does anyone know what's going on?
My wife and I again contributed, this time to OXFAM AMERICA ( www.oxfamamerica.org ), after watching an interview with a couple of their spokespersons and reading their website. They've been working for years in the affected countries, have personnel and supplies stored on the ground, and have been combatting the local tropical diseases for a long time.
| IP: Logged
|
|
David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004
|
posted 12-30-2004 07:51 PM
quote: Thomas Procyk
... that's exactly why I found it especially perplexing that the President kept saying "What we need to do is send CASH..."
It may seem totally inappropriate to say this at this time, with the death toll still rising dramatically, and thats before the disease sets in, but its once again back to global economics.
You (as in a Citizen of the USA) donate dollars, the dollars go out of the USA to somewhere else. A serious proportion of the dollars then come back to the USA as goods are purchased by the overseas aid agency. Even the dollars that get syphoned off "inapropriately" will probably eventually make their way back home.
You give "stuff", its just goes out straight out of the country with no benefit to the US economy.
Not very pretty I'm afraid, but thats the way global economics works. Even at a time like this.
quote: Gerard S. Cohen
The best reporting I have seen, covering global responses to the needs for disaster relief for the twelve nations stricken by the earthquake/tsunami disaster, has come from the BBC World news,carried by PBS-TV in the NJ-NY area.
The beeb are very very good when it involves an issue that the UK doesnt have a stake in. Then, of course, they go all coy, reducing themselves to a self censoring propoganda machine, just like all the other great news-gathering organisations. On the plus size, after the event they went all coy about is over, they then do a documentary explaining how they selectively reported the truth, and how they were set up as the fall guys. Still, at least they try to stick to the truth, albeit edited, they try not to fabricate, as did famously sky news.
Thats why I quite like AlJazeera. It was founded and still staffed by by ex-BBC staff, and are in a place where they have no British Government telling them what they can and cant say, so they just say it. Thats not to say they are not a station without an aganda, they just have less of them than the BBC or CNN or ABC.
quote: Gerard S. Cohen
Can anyone explain why the Indian Prime Minister rejected international aid, saying "India can take care of its own?"
You are aware the Indian government has stumped up $110m or so for internal aid, and another $20m for neigbouring countries? They are quite big numbers. And although the Indian death toll is bad, it's nothing like other disasters India has faced, some of which it has been only to happy to accept aid for.
You could at this point get cynical, and suggest that if India doesnt need to, they dont want to have to say "thanks" to another country (or countries) for helping them out if they dont really need help, these things can come back when a favour needs to be repaid. India is not in everyones happy list at the moment. The world is an ugly place. (that last statement is not cynical)
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
|
posted 12-30-2004 08:28 PM
Phil, presumably your comments were not meant for me. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) j/k.
I totally agree that if all you hear from a news report is "Country X pledged $35M in relief assistance", it sounds ridiculously, laughably small. Especially coming from a relatively wealthy country. But it's not the whole story. It's been, what, only 4 days since the tsunami, and they're still trying to assess the damage. The very immediate need is for basic supplies and temporary housing. That all takes time to get going. It doesn't happen overnight. My heart goes out to the victims of this catastrophe, but I think it's prudent to give the International Red Cross, United Nations, and whoever else is directly involved in providing assistance the time they need to set this up so the assistance goes where it's supposed to go.
I seriously doubt that the citizens of the US will have ANYTHING to be ashamed of in terms of the assistance and resources we provide, and for which we expect nothing in return except the assurance that our largess goes where it's needed.
| IP: Logged
|
|
David Buckley
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 525
From: Oxford, N. Canterbury, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2004
|
posted 12-30-2004 08:29 PM
Thanks, Phil, very enlightening.
What is your problem? I get the feeling you think I'm criticizing, but I'm not - I'm explaining. Ask a qustion I know the answer to, I'll offer it.
There is a big difference between politics and economics. Economics transcends politics. Its how the world works.
For the avoidence of doubt - I'm not telling the USA how to help, and as I've said before, I like Americans and America. And America is stepping up to the plate and helping, as everyone knows it would.
And yes, Americans are generous - I dont know where your 40% figure comes from, but it doesnt surprise me.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 12-30-2004 09:16 PM
quote: David Stambaugh
I seriously doubt that the citizens of the US will have ANYTHING to be ashamed of in terms of the assistance and resources we provide, and for which we expect nothing in return except the assurance that our largess goes where it's needed.
AMEN! ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif) I think I can attribute everyone's edgyness to the fact that this thing actually caused the whole planet to change its course!
Quake may have altered Earth's rotation
Published: December 28, 2004, 6:10 PM PST
By Reuters
The deadly Asian earthquake may have permanently accelerated the Earth's rotation--shortening days by a fraction of a second--and caused the planet to wobble on its axis, U.S. scientists said Tuesday.
Richard Gross, a geophysicist with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, theorized that a shift of mass toward the Earth's center during the quake on Sunday caused the planet to spin 3 microseconds, or 3 millionths of a second, faster and to tilt about an inch on its axis.
When one huge tectonic plate beneath the Indian Ocean was forced below the edge of another "it had the effect of making the Earth more compact and spinning faster," Gross said.
Gross said changes predicted by his model probably are too minuscule to be detected by a global positioning satellite network that routinely measures changes in Earth's spin, but said the data may reveal a slight wobble.
The Earth's poles travel a circular path that normally varies by about 33 feet, so an added wobble of an inch is unlikely to cause long-term effects, he said.
"That continual motion is just used to changing," Gross said. "The rotation is not actually that precise. The Earth does slow down and change its rate of rotation."
When those tiny variations accumulate, planetary scientists must add a "leap second" to the end of a year, something that has not been done in many years, Gross said.
Scientists have long theorized that changes on the Earth's surface such as tide and groundwater shifts and weather could affect its spin but they have not had precise measurements to prove it, Caltech seismologist Hiroo Kanamori said.
"Even for a very large event, the effect is very small," Kanamori said. "It's very difficult to change the rotation rate substantially."
Story Copyright © 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
--------------
This makes me wonder if this isn't the start of some geocatastrophicality yet to come. These past couple of years have brought upon some strange weather patterns, and even the glaciers are moving faster. I'm kinda worried....
=TMP=
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003
|
posted 02-16-2005 03:42 PM
I don't think this would be considered cross posting since it is from a non-film website, but please ban me if it is.
A british guy on the scuba forums that I read was on a dive trip during the tsunamis. I thought it was an interesting read.
well guys (and girls),
that was one holiday i would not like to repeat!!!
it all started badly from the start.
Emirates decided to tell us 2 days before they had over booked the hotel and only got it sorted 5 pm the night before we left.
while in Dubai for the stop over my eye started to swell and itch.
when we got to bangkok it was quite swollen and painful, the hospital said i had an ab-sis and it had to be removed (no diving for a week)
after the week was up i went on a liveaboard to the similans, bad vis, no mantas, no whale sharks, lots of sand and fileds of coral damaged by dynamite fishing, i think that the similans are not worthy of a top 10 status and richieleu rock is supposed to be top 3, again no way.
finished the liveaboard on the 23rd and 25th went to Kamala beach, 26th we were doing an island tour:
Phi Phi, Maya Beach and Kai island.
the tour started normally and we went to viking cave then around to Loh Sama Bay (i think that is what it is called)
anyway it is a "U" shapped bay with a little beach in it and a large pinacle island in the "U".
some of our boat went in to feed the fish, i took a couple of scenic shots then put our son (21 months) into a life jacket.
because it was too big i had to pull it in tight and then put one on just for safety and got in.
Daniel hates water and started crying and climbed around my neck so i hung on to the back of the boat until he calmed down.
luckily for us he didn't and then all of a sudden they started shouting everyone back in the boat, i honestly thought there was a large shark and thought great no housing for the camera!
they took Daniel back in and i climbed up and was told there had been an earth quake and tidal waves at Phuket.
i turned around to see the see running so fast back out to sea that it looked like Niagra falls, and the coral came up or rather we went down real fast, i told the boat captain to get us out quick or we would end up on the rocks and get smashed when the water came back in. the thais were fannying around trying to throw ropes to people that were well out of range.
forget them i said (or words to that effect) there are 10 people on the boat now move it.
we started to back out when the wave/swell started to push into the bay around the protecting pinacle.
all i can say is thank got i was not in the water, what i thought was fast going out was nothing compared to it coming in.
the poeple in the water must have washed around the bay well over 100m and out into the open sea in about 5 seconds flat!
the one lucky enough to have put on life jackets were fight for their life to stay above water, i never thought i would see people going under in a life jacket.
we saw 3 people (2 men and a boy) fly past u and we threw a rope the first guy caught i but the other two got pulled off.
we were about to turn the boat around when we saw a small girl float by us in a pool of blood.
i helped to pull her on and the moment she was on our boat time stopped for about 10 seconds.
every person and i mean every person just stood and looked, open jaws, and shear terror.
then time started again when the thai boat girl screammed "oh my god, oh my god someone do something, someone do something!!!"
i was the only person who could move, my wife almost fainted, her friend burst into tears and everyone else stood still.
the girl had been hit by the propellor from a long tail.
she had a cut that looked like someone had got a samurai sword put the flat of the blad to her neck and sliced down to her collar bone and shoulder blade.
it gapped open by at least 1" and everything was on show.
the muscle on the rear of her right thigh had been sliced off to the bone and was flaping around by a small piece of skin and muscle, again there was nothing that you could not see.
there was a large gash to her right shin and the tendons were visible.
a small but deep cut to her bicep.
and a cut where your leg meets you groin that started at the top of her vagina and disspapeared around to her buttocks.
up until this point if a TV documentry about operations was on i woukd change channels as i felt physically sick!
i grabbed my t shirt and tied it around her thigh/groin.
i used my sons shorts on her shin and another t shirt on her thigh.
i used a towel and roled it up and got someone to press it in to her shoulder to close the wound.
after what seemed like a couple of minutes there was still loads of blood and when i looked further she had a 4 " gash in the back of her head, and it looked like it was through the bone.
i got another towel and put that on her head.
i told the boat to go to the nearest hospital as she was dieing, but they wanted to get more people, "forget them" i said "there are plenty of boats to get them, she is going to die!"
after what seemed like an eternity of arguing they headed to Phi Phi.
when we got there, there was not a lot left, the beach was gone, the land was inches above sea level and the water was running off back into the sea.
people were waving and shouting for help and anything that could float was in the water.
again they tried to discharge their responsibilities by transfering her to a bigger boat, "no way" i said "take her to a hospital now, the closest one go, go, go, go, go!!!
i am not sure if it was the right thing to do, but she had lost a lot of blood and was going into shock so we stopped a dive boat and asked for their oxygen.
to my amazement they had none! we stopped another and they happily passed it over to us.
we set it up and again not knowing what setting, i set it to half and hoped for the best.
we went back to phuket was was in excess of an hour and seemed like 2.
the guy we pulled in was Czech and it turned out the little girl was 9 and in his tour group. he got a good tongue lashing and set to work talking to her and keeping her calm.
i continually checked her but as the boat was bouncing around and there were 2 v6 engines i had no chance of checking her breathing and pulse. i had to rely on eye movement and pinching her toe.
at one point her skin went really cold and clamy and i thought she had died, i had tears in my eyes, i thought she was dieing in my arms, i had to pinch her toe twice to get a movement and then i sighed.
on the way back i said to the boat crew, "have an ambulance standing by at the dock, she is critical!", "yes, yes there is one there".
when we finally got in, there was no ambulance and just a minibus, i was so angry, it was lucky i didn't have a gun otherwise i would have shot the usless f*****s.
we put her in the minibus and went to the hospital, again i had to tell them "flashers, horn, lights just go, go, go!!"
we went past several police bikes and not one offered to escort us.
when we got to the hospital, somehow i managed to pick up and run in, shouting in thai "quick, move", the idiots wanted to put her in a wheel chair.
we got her into an assessment room and i shouted for a doctor, a swedish one came over and i reeled off her injuries, the first thing he said to me was "are you a doctor?", "no just a diver" was my response.
they assessed her wounds and dressed them and then she waiting over 6 hours before they operated.
the next day i went to see her and her father who was the man with the boy (her brother) who was swept away had managed to get to phuket from phi phi.
his english was poor and my czech non existant but i think he realised after a while that i was one of the ones who brought her to hospital.
he said a CT scan was ok and when i pointed to the other wounds and did walking motion wih my fingers he said ok.
so the little girl was going to be OK.
I gave him my email address, but not too sure if they will ever write.
sometimes when people ask me about it it is ok, but other times i just start crying, as that could have easily been me and Daniel, or she could have died in my arms.
i'm going to take some time off work, the UK government have set up a grief clinic/councillor so i might go and see them.
so that is/was my story from the tsunami
__________________ http://www.scubaboard.com/t83410-i-survived-the-tsunami.html
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[eyes]](graemlins/eyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic