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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » Rumor Regurge: Apple Exploring Use of Intel Chips (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: Rumor Regurge: Apple Exploring Use of Intel Chips
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-07-2005 01:02 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There will be no "OSX for Windows." Furthermore, Intel based Macs will not be sold with any version of Windows installed. It is also pretty likely Apple will not "unbundle" OSX separately from Apple branded hardware. You will likely need a Mac to run it.

However, Steve Jobs said it will be possible for users to install a copy of Windows on these new Macs (presumably WinXP or "Longhorn"). So they will be able to dual boot both OSX and Windows.

Intel is working on virtualization technology that may allow OSX to run Windows programs directly. The Rosetta technology is similar to the method used by DEC Alpha processors years ago to rewrite x86 WinNT code to Alpha native code. Rosetta just recompiles PPC code into x86 Intel code on the fly.

Some articles have talked about developers using processor independent "fat binaries" for OSX Intel and OSX PPC software ports. I think a major component of that is the "cocoa" programming library. Unfortunately a lot of OSX development is done using the "carbon" library, which is specific to the PowerPC processor.

Adobe made a public statement yesterday that it will develop both Intel-native OSX and PowerPC-native OSX versions of their future products (which would stand to include all those Macromedia applications they're aquiring).

The other added wrinkle to this is the additional transition from 32-bit code to 64-bit code. Developers compiling applications for the Intel version of OSX will also have to make their software ports compatible with 64-bit operation.

Overall, this is very do-able. Apple already has experience in dealing with this kind of transition (the switch from 16-bit Motorola 68000 processors to 32-bit PowerPC in the early 1990s). I think this transition may actually happen more easily. Apple is making a lot of money selling iPods and high end multimedia software. And Apple has potential to expand its market greatly with this transition.

Microsoft will be put behind the proverbial eight-ball, especially if Apple eventually unbundles OSX and allows it to be installed on lots of x86 hardware. This really could happen if they garner lots of independent developer support. I think Linux could get hammered hard on this deal as well.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 06-07-2005 05:04 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think OSX should be able to run Windows programs directly... or VIRUS! Actully I think Windows itself is a virus.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-07-2005 05:55 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David Stambaugh
Hasn't most of Apple's sales and earnings growth over the last couple years been attributable to the iPod success? I saw a story that says iPod sales have flattened out and the channels are overstocked with inventory. So anything negative that happens with iPod is a big deal to Apple in the short term, if that's where most of their earnings come from right now.
They've really ripped people off with the iPods. It should (and will) sell for a lot less because they'll make plenty of money on the music. Just watch -- in two years, you'll be able to buy an iPod for 40 bucks. The real money is in iTunes.

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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 06-07-2005 06:16 PM      Profile for Mike Heenan   Email Mike Heenan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Compared to other large capacity MP3 players, Ipod's aren't that more expensive.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

- posted 06-07-2005 07:16 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
They've really ripped people off with the iPods. It should (and will) sell for a lot less because they'll make plenty of money on the music. Just watch -- in two years, you'll be able to buy an iPod for 40 bucks. The real money is in iTunes.
Do you have some facts to back that up? I doubt it because Apple doesn't break out profits by division, only revenue. Apple hasn't yet made any substantial profit on iTunes because most of the revenue goes back to the record companies. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's gross take is around 25-30 cents per song and don't forget the infrastructure and marketing costs associated with iTunes.

iPod prices will drop over the years, but only because the cost of mini-drives and flash memory is dropping.

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 06-07-2005 07:45 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
That does not make any sense. You mean OSX for Intel?
Of course thats what I meant.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-07-2005 10:54 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are two things I don't like about iPods:
1. Apparently the only way to replace the battery is buying a new iPod. That sucks ass.
2. You have to use their iTunes software and are limited in the types of files that can play (not to mention restricted in how you back up the tunes you buy).

But that's just me. Lots of people don't seem bothered by those limitations. I would prefer to be able to replace the battery and be able to play any regular MP3 or CD quality WAV files I have.

quote:
I don't think OSX should be able to run Windows programs directly... or VIRUS!
Well, providing this kind of emulation system can even be made practical at all, I'm sure OSX will keep any Windows app locked away in its own "virtual machine." Still, viruses are a huge concern. And if OSX gains a bunch of popularity through this Apple-Intel deal, it will become a larger target for malware.

But this brings up another possible strength of having a "Mactel PC" with OSX and Windows dual bootable: if the Windows installation gets hosed with some kind of malware you may be able to remove the problem easily in OSX. This would be especially true if the hard disc partitions are readable for either OS. It might be better than trying to klutz around in Windows Safe Mode.

Still, anything bad can happen. Gotta back up those files, and use something like Norton Ghost.

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Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 06-07-2005 11:38 PM      Profile for Mike Heenan   Email Mike Heenan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the battery in the Ipod notorious for burning out quickly?

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

- posted 06-08-2005 12:28 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's what the recent class action lawsuit settlement against Apple was about. The suit claimed the early iPod batteries were not charging fully and dying prematurely. The settlement means Apple will be issuing $50 battery vouchers and extented warantees to each of the approx 2,000,000 early iPod buyers.

On the chip front, it'll be fun to watch how DRM issues will be handled. Intel chips have DRM built in as part of the chip architecture, something the PowerPC chips never had. Up 'til now MoBos and/or BIOS suppressed the built-in Intel DRM functions. We'll see if pressure from the various DRM advocates force a change to this historically benign DRM stance.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-08-2005 02:11 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Martin Brooks
Do you have some facts to back that up?
Nope, just common sense, knowledge of past history, and the experience of being in the music biz for over 30 years. Every new "player" technology gets cheap after it hits the mass market and all the "early adopters" have paid top dollar. But the price of the music doesn't change all that much, especially when inflation is taken into account. You don't think Apple got into the iTunes business for the fun of it, do you?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-08-2005 12:54 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
The settlement means Apple will be issuing $50 battery vouchers and extented warantees to each of the approx 2,000,000 early iPod buyers.
What good is a $50 battery voucher if you can't replace the battery in an iPod? I suppose if they called the voucher what is really is, a $50 coupon for another iPod, then maybe a bunch of those people in the settlement group might have become angry.

Any product that uses a rechargeable battery should be designed in a manner that the battery is replaceable. I don't care how fantastic some battery technology may be -ALL rechargeable batteries eventually lose their ability to hold a charge. Many Li-Ion types are only good for 150-300 charge cycles.

Until Apple sells an iPod with a replaceable battery I will not even consider one at all. 100% deal breaker.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

- posted 06-08-2005 01:01 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The battery in an ipod can be replaced. What you are supposed to do is to return it to Apple who will send you another ipod in exchange; you don't get your original one back. The cost used to be very high, almost as much as a new ipod, but has been reduced; I think it's something like $99 now.

There are at least three different battery types used by the various models of ipod, but all are available, and, with care, can be replaced by the user. There are plenty of websites advertising the batteries, usually with instructions, and tool for opening the ipod case. cost usually seems to be about $50.

Depending on use, typical battery life is said to be about eighteen months. I've only had mine about two months, so I don't know.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Any product that uses a rechargeable battery should be designed in a manner that the battery is replaceable. I don't care how fantastic some battery technology may be -ALL rechargeable batteries eventually lose their ability to hold a charge. Many Li-Ion types are only good for 150-300 charge cycles.
Yes, I agree with this. I hate batteries; they're heavy, they're expensive, they run down at just the wrong moment, they don't like working in the cold, and, if you're really unlucky, they leak, though the modern ones don't often do that. If you want a good way to reduce the reliability of a device, have it rely on battery power.

The ipod battery is said to be a lithium polymer type, whatever that is, I've never heard of it before. There are just too many different battery types now. Life is said to be about 300-500 cycles.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-08-2005 01:21 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
See, there it is. The $50 battery voucher tells you what the iPod is actually worth. This is a common electronic indudtry thing -- you get an "order form" where you send the item in for a "free battery" or "free service." They charge you a "handling and shipping charge" but what you're actually doing is "buying" a unit that may or may not have been "refurbished." This is nothing new.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-08-2005 01:24 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's still a kludge if you have to send one iPod back to Apple just to get another as a replacement. My first thought is the phrase: "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery."

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 06-08-2005 03:25 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
I would prefer to be able to replace the battery and be able to play any regular MP3 or CD quality WAV files I have.
iPods can play both Mp3s and WAVs without any modification to the player or the files. Also, I have replaced the batery in my 1st generation iPod with no difficulty whatsoever. I may replace the one in my 3rd gen soon as well.

Also, in terms of the official batery swap out program, I imagine it would be similar to Palm's. They send you the replacement unit first, then you put the old unit into the same box, and place the return shipping label on it.

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