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Author Topic: Air France plane crash at Toronto Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 08-09-2005 01:38 AM                        Unloaded microbursts! Exactly what I kept telling people. But nobody would listen to me.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-09-2005 03:15 AM                        'Unloaded microbursts' sounds like how the opposite sex behaves towards their fellow human beings for a few days every month... Paul - thanks for the heads up. I'm covered for 'cancellation or curtailment consequent upon a strike of scheduled public transport', provided that I had no prior knowledge of it when I made the booking, which in this case I genuinely didn't. Given that the booking was finalised at the start of July, I can't see how any insurer would have expected me to predict a strike six weeks ahead, and would guess that the clause is designed to protect the insurer against someone booking a bargain basement ticket on a carrier with an impending strike a few hours or days beforehand. If NW does go TU that would be a shame: I've done two trips to the US with them before, and chose NW this time mainly because they were the cheapest, but also because they've always been very reliable and with excellent service. The only other long-haul trip I've done was on BA. It was several hours late both ways, and despite having filled in the 'special dietary needs' part of the booking form to say that I was allergic to dairy fat, I was still offered a choice of lasagne or pizza. NW, on the other hand, has always been on time, the legroom on the DC-10 is more generous than on any other plane I've been on (a big deal on a nine-hour flight, given that I'm 6'3") and there's never been any problem with the food.  |  IP: Logged Andy Summers Master Film Handler Posts: 397 From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom Registered: Jun 2005 posted 08-09-2005 09:41 AM                 That’s just horrifying, makes me feel sad….  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-16-2005 06:53 PM                        105 of the passengers (about a third of them) are now suing for $150M. TSB has ruled out mechanical problems and are investigating the possibility of stupid pilots. On a related note, the boys from JetPort ran their empty Gullstream 100 off the end of the runway at YHM last night in very heavy fog and rain on their way back from dropping some exec's family off in Florida.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-17-2005 02:49 AM                        If there were no technical faults with the aircraft, the weather was within legal limits for attempting a landing and the information supplied by air traffic controllers was accurate, that has to rule out every possibility except pilot error as far as I can see. Unless there was a contributory cause for that error which was beyond the pilots' control (e.g. a gang of Islamic extremists brandishing AK47s burst into the cockpit just as they were attempting to land), it looks like those pilots just blew Air France's no claims bonus! Interestingly, when I bought my ticket for Austin at the end of this month, Air France was by far the most expensive option - almost £200 more than Northwest (something like £600 for AF compared to £380 on NW), with whom I eventually booked. Plus also, AF involved an extra leg and takes 4 hours longer (Newcastle - Paris - Atlanta - Cincinnati - Austin on AF, vs. Newcastle - Amsterdam - Memphis - Austin on NW). Admittedly, AF's core business probably isn't transatlantic passengers from the north of England, but if they're that uncompetitive in their domestic market too, it can only be the French taxpayer that is keeping them in the air.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-17-2005 03:00 AM                        I think them writing off an aircraft with an unbeatable safety record, a Concorde, took care of their no claims bonus! Of course they might have been able to split that claim with whoever left the debris on the runway.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-17-2005 03:56 AM                        To be fair, I don't think the claim for that one would be against AF's policy: the Concorde crash, as I remember, was caused by a combination of a sharp bit of crud on the runway and an inherent flaw in the wing design which left the fuel tank especially vulnerable to pentration. Apparently there had been several similar but non-catastrophic incidents during the '80s and '90s; it was only good luck which prevented that disaster from happening for so long and it could just as easily have been a BA Concorde that went down. In a way, that was good luck, too: all the areas around Heathrow are densely populated, and if that crash had happened over Hounslow or Acton there would probably have been hundreds of deaths on the ground. Charles de Gaulle is surrounded by low density suburbs to the south and east, and sparely populated rural areas to the north and west (e.g. Gonesse, where the crash happened).  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-17-2005 07:51 AM                        "Storms in the area" means that it is possible to have a 15 knot head wind at 25 feet, but have a 71 knot tailwind on the runway. All available weather instruments would show the headwind, but the plane lands in the bottom 15 feet. I know; it happened to me. (Data reconstructed later with level 5 thunderstorm at 6 miles moving at 60 mph toward airport.)My field was VFR in sunlight. If I remember correctly heavy rain occurred in Canada just after the crash. Louis  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-17-2005 07:58 AM                        quote: Louis Bornwasser If I remember correctly heavy rain occurred in Canada just after the crash. Wow, that one wins the award for broadest term of the day, and it's only 9am! There was heavy rain, thunderstorms, and hail all day, but that doesn't change the fact that the dumbasses floated themselves 4000 feet down the runway in a landing that they should have aborted.  |  IP: Logged

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