Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Don Imus' Radio-Thon

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Community » Film-Yak » Don Imus' Radio-Thon (Page 5)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Author

Topic: Don Imus' Radio-Thon

Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-13-2007 03:25 PM

As in many situations, a George Carlin quote is appropriate:

"Well, Reverend, the radio has two knobs on it. One turns it off, and the other one changes the station! Imagine that, Reverend...you can actually change the station! Of course the Reverend might not be too comfortable with something that has two knobs on it."

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-13-2007 05:49 PM

quote: Chad Souder
No, I'm sorry but it does not. The first amendment, and the freedom of speech clause within, like the rest of the constitution, protect citizens from the government. The constitution does not protect us from each other. There has not even been a hint of government action regarding Imus's comments. He did nothing illegal. Therefore, this does not have anything to do with freedom of speech.

Your statement is contradicting itself. You just said Imus did nothing illegal? OK. So why is OK for him to get fired?

I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think this issue is ultimately a constitutional one regarding freedom of speech. It is an unavoidable fact two very unequal standards exist for what white people can say compared to those who are not white. Imus' case is yet another example of that. If Imus was black and said some racist & sexist comments about some white female basketball players no one would have cried foul over it. He would have kept his job. And that's partly because most white people would have been too scared to raise the issue.

This condition exists because of rampant political correctness that has run fully unchecked in our society. White people have had to hold their tongues on many issues and walk on eggshells regarding anything else. If they deviate from that repressed standpoint, then, "you're fired!"

There's not a lot of people coming to Imus' defense out of fear of also being branded as a racist and losing their own jobs as well. If a controversial black celebrity came under fire for racist comments, he would have lots of supporters holding rallies on his behalf and likely even calling the entertainer's accusers racists for challenging the issue.

While these uneven standards continue to exist issues regarding race aren't going to improve any further. If Imus needs to be fired for his actions then that same standard should apply across the board to everyone. If we are going to demand certain standards of verbal decency those standards need to be enforced fairly and consistently.

I have said the best thing for people to do is work that channel selector on their radio or TV if they don't like what is playing. Watch or listen to something else. The trouble is, that's really already happening. The public uproar on Imus is generated more by media outlets looking to stir the pot and media whores looking for face time in front of the cameras to vainly promote their own careers.

| IP: Logged

Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-13-2007 06:28 PM

| IP: Logged

Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 04-13-2007 06:36 PM

Bobby, have you heard of Isiah Washington and his "rehab" sting regarding his gay bashing? Same with Hardaway and his gay bashing. The NBA banned him from the All Star game. Black celebs get targeted too.

I am personally for freedom of speech. But such thing unfortunately hasnt existed in its true form. Imagine if a prominent political talk show host on a network made a crude joke making fun of Mary's so called viriginity and make a snide comment about her virginity. And no, I am not talking about South Park type shows(which are analogous to the rappers comparison with Imus). Imagine if a political talk show host on a network did that. He would be fired too. But South Park will still stay on the air because it is viewed in a different context. And there are other shows as offensive as South Park without the genius of South Park which are allowed to be distributed freely on tape.

And let's not forget whites who have to walk on eggshells are paying for the sins of their fathers, metaphorically. The 50s and 60s mean that a lot of white racists from that era are still alive now. Hell, I hear the nigger word and other racial insults from a few of my Steelers fans EVEN NOW which shocks me because I would expect such stuff from the south, but not from a PIttsburgher(maybe they let their guard down around me since some Indians harbor bigoted tendencies towards blacks in America). I am no saying it is right to curb free speech, but there are reasons why political correctness has gone amuck even if I do not support PCness. John Edwards had to have two of his blogging staff "resign" because of past statements about religion on their own personal blogs way before they even joined his campaign. SOme of the people defending Imus in the media were some of the same people asking why they werent fired.

It could be worse. You could be in Europe where free speech is even more controlled. Or in India where even a fact based documentary is censored.

And Imus has exhausted his quota of freebies. How can you say a guy who has called Gwen Ifill a respectable woman a cleaning lady has no racist intentions in calling a mainly black basketball team nappy headed hos? He just said that based on a visual, not because there were reports of thuggery on that team. THere was no humor in that.

Howard Stern has no problems with Sharpton calling for a boycott despite his racial humor. I think it was Imus's tone and his track record that really made the shit hit the fan. He has this dour attitude and a racial comment will just come across as nastier.

Like I said, they should not have fired him. I just wish political guests did the Cal Ripken thing making him irrelevant over time. And they could have taken out Imus's call screeners to make him feel the wrath of real free speech. All this does is make a martyr of him. I write all of this not to defend the firing but to say that it is understandable to "some" extent why blacks are thin skinned in our country. I dont agree with the PCness because I believe they should learn to hit back without having a show get canceled midterm, but I can understand why their fuse is short.

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-13-2007 06:58 PM

quote: Pravin Ratnam
Bobby, have you heard of Isiah Washington and his "rehab" sting regarding his gay bashing? Same with Hardaway and his gay bashing. The NBA banned him from the All Star game.

That comparison doesn't work. You're talking about hatred against gays, not hatred against whites. Gay men are arguably the most maligned group of people in America. They're one of the last groups of people where open hatred and even acts of violence are humorously condoned.

When a black entertainer gets fired from his job for using terms like "honkey" and "cracker" or using stereotypes of white people as a cornerstone of his act then that will be a qualified example on the same level as what happened with Don Imus.

quote: Pravin Ratnam
And let's not forget whites who have to walk on eggshells are paying for the sins of their fathers, metaphorically. The 50s and 60s mean that a lot of white racists from that era are still alive now.

How is visiting the sins of the fathers onto the sons acceptable? Fundamentally, it is racist to make one person pay for what a different guy did just because they have the same skin color.

| IP: Logged

Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 04-13-2007 07:36 PM

By the way, Bobby, just wanted to make sure you are aware I am not aiming any of my past messages or this one at you or anyone else on this forum personally. I understand a lot of us on this forum tend to be more of a libertarian mindset which is similar to mine. Having said that, back to our discussion.

It's a numbers game. People go by visual cues. If you are awhite person using nigger or similar word, the chances are likely it will be racist. If a black person says it, the chances are the guy is just a crass no class individual and you just shake your head at his ignorance or people using their own slurs and warping its meaning to their own advantage in a cathartic way. Too many white people, many of who are still living now, sat idly by when those words were being used in the 50s and 60s. So you are paying for that. Just like this country has inherited the wealth of all the good attributes of those generations, we are living with some of the emotional baggage brought on by those generations. When that generation dies off, maybe the effect of those words will lessen. And gays is a valid comparison because gays are put down by straights but if a gay guy did a mean routine making fun of straights , it wouldn't carry the same level of power. Honkey and Cracka historically haven't beeen anywhere as damaging in the power of what followed those insults to nigger and nigra. And the sins of the fathers count when those fathers are still alive now. And when some of the sons of those fathers still continue to use it in private without fear of sufficient repurcussions.

Oh and those situations where I heard racist terms from white guys in recent years (some old enough to be from an era where they cannot say it was their father's generation that was racist), what was the reaction from the other white people in those groups - uncomfortable silence in the case of the least racist people. Not once did I see someone admonish their friends for using such language. Only when I would bring it up, then I would get some agreement from the people around me.

If you are going to live in a country with all the benefits of celebrating a rich history, then you got to live with the consequences of some of the STATE SANCTIONED bigotry that has taken place until recent history.

I am not saying ban these words or make it automatically firable when you use such language. I am just saying I understand why someone would be offended in such situations as the Imus one.

Oh why do i doubt Imus's sincerity? I got this from an article in Slate.
" the shock jock's admission the previous year on CBS News' 60 Minutes that he'd once told a colleague he hired producer Bernard McGuirk to tell "nigger" jokes. ("That was an off-the-record conversation," Imus protested to Mike Wallace.) "

[ 04-15-2007, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Pravin Ratnam ]

| IP: Logged

Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-13-2007 07:38 PM

quote: Pravin Ratnam
I understand a lot of us on this forum tend to be more of a libertarian mindset which is similar to mine.

| IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-13-2007 07:56 PM

Sorry Bobby...Chad got it right...it is NOT a constitutional thing. The Government did not fire him...the government did not have anything to do with his removal.

In fact, it was the very free speech you love that lead to his dismissal. That is, the speech of the "outraged."

It is certainly a company's place to decide what is in their best interest and if they feel that firing IMUS is in their best interests, then unless he has some sort of contract that guarantees him that job or salary in lieu their of, then he probably has an "at will" job. More than likely, he has a contract that CBS is paying off unless he violated some term in the contract.

There is nothing Constitutional about it. The Constitution was/is about limiting the powers of government...not how companys interact with their employees. There are many things that a company can do that the US government can't. A company is governed by the law of the land, not by the Constitution of the land.

If you want to march down Park Avenue demanding equal treatment of public figures regardless of skin color or ethnic origin, then the government can't silence you...you may need to have the proper permits if this is an offical march in which you might end up conflicting with another's freedom to move about. The government does have the power to maintain order to ensure public safety (the government is entrusted to keep the peace). Heck the government has to ensure your safety. They can't silence you to do it though...even if the likelihood is that you will cause people to be upset (research "Prior Restraint" which was found unConstitutional). Prior restraint is one of my bugaboos...the government practices it way too much and they should be called on it. In its most obvious sense...seat belt laws violate prior-restraint....you only will get hurt IF you get into an accident AND the circumstances are that the seat belt would have stopped you from injuring or killing yourself...the likelihood of a problem is not sufficient for one to apply prior-restraint...at least not according to the Constitution. No one has tested the seat-belt laws for prior-restraint violations like free-speech has been tested (and found to trump prior-restraint). Mind, you I've always worn a seat belt...but I don't think it is government's job to play nanny.

I still couldn't give two sh*ts about IMUS being canned and I think the outraged are as full of crap as IMUS is...UNLESS you were on that team or are related/know the people insulted by it...nobody wants to be called something bad or be thought of something bad...it doesn't make it illegal but I can understand about being upset.

It certainly isn't worth the amount of attention it has brought.

| IP: Logged

Dennis Benjamin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1445
From: Denton, MD
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-13-2007 08:21 PM

A couple of things here:

As far as the "PC" business. Karl Marx said that every society must consider going to socialism in it's existence (or something to that affect.) I see all this political correct BS as part of that path our government and our culture is taking on our way to that type of society structure. Anyone ever heard the song "The Trees" by Rush? Yeah - this would be the part of the song where the ax is being taken out to chop all the trees to be the same height. Instead of our government being behind it - it's the DAMN MEDIA. Think about it - it only is a big deal when the media makes it a big deal. I bet some media executives have betting pools what the next big story will be and how it will affect our society. I will leave the rest of my opinion to myself on this - because I can go on and on........

Three media stories come to mind: Rodney King, OJ Simpson, and now Don Imus. What do these three media stories have in common? If there was no media coverage (or little to none) we wouldn't be having this conversation right now........

Right?

| IP: Logged

Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-15-2007 10:40 AM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Your statement is contradicting itself. You just said Imus did nothing illegal? OK. So why is OK for him to get fired?

Because, like Steve put so well, it was a business decision. Imus has made many conscious, edgy decisions over the years in an attempt to increase his market value. The risk is that one of those decisions could come back to bite him in the ass. That is what happened here and he was fired for what probably went down as something like, "failure to conduct oneself and represent so-and-so in a manner worthy blah, blah, blah." If he did anything illegal you certainly would have heard about charges being brought against him, given all the media attention.

| IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-15-2007 02:42 PM

WAtch for him on XM; financial media was speculating about this last week. More than one way to break a contract. Louis

| IP: Logged

Mike Heenan
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1896
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-15-2007 02:52 PM

Be funny to see him and Stern working together, if the Sirius/XM merger goes through.

| IP: Logged

Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-16-2007 09:35 PM

quote:
As far as the "PC" business. Karl Marx said that every society must consider going to socialism in it's existence (or something to that affect.) I see all this political correct BS as part of that path our government and our culture is taking on our way to that type of society structure. Anyone ever heard the song "The Trees" by Rush? Yeah - this would be the part of the song where the ax is being taken out to chop all the trees to be the same height. Instead of our government being behind it - it's the DAMN MEDIA. Think about it - it only is a big deal when the media makes it a big deal. I bet some media executives have betting pools what the next big story will be and how it will affect our society.

I like the analogy.

And here's the song for anyone unfamiliar with it:

"The Trees"
Lyrics by Neil Peart
Music By Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson
From the album "Hemispheres" (1978)

There is unrest in the Forest
There is trouble with the trees
For the Maples want more sunlight
And the Oaks ignore their pleas

The trouble with the Maples
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the Oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the Oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the Maples
Can't be happy in their shade?

There is trouble in the Forest
And the creatures all have fled
As the Maples scream 'Opression!'
And the Oaks, just shake their heads

So the Maples formed a Union
and demanded equal rights
'The Oaks are just too greedy
We will make them give us light'
Now there's no more Oak oppression
For they passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw...

Copyright 1978 Core Music Publishing.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.