Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Two questions: Are notebooks and PDAs still OK on planes? And, what to do in Chicago?

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Topic: Two questions: Are notebooks and PDAs still OK on planes? And, what to do in Chicago?

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-21-2007 09:07 AM

quote: Tim Reed
Won't that erase the hard drive? I've had credit cards blanked by airport x-rays before.

It almost certainly won't nuke it in one fell swoop, but a recent experience suggests to me that it won't help.

I flew to Boston for a conference just over three weeks ago. Going through the x-ray before boarding the flight at Amsterdam the laptop was stopped in the x-ray machine for around 10 minutes while the bag in front of it was removed and hand search before they restarted the conveyor belt through the x-ray.

When I got to the hotel at Boston, the computer booted OK but seemed to be running very slow to me. The following morning it simply wouldn't boot at all - error message 'Cannot find operating system'. The BIOS screen listed a number of parameters, including 'HDD type = None, HDD serial no = None'. In other words, the HDD was totally knackered and the computer couldn't even detect it.

When I got home, I bought a new HDD (only £48 for a 120gb one - I was expecting it to cost more), restored the Windows system image from the Acronis backup I'd made to an external HDD sitting at home and everything worked fine. So the original laptop HDD had definitely failed. The laptop has functioned fine since, so I don't think anything else can have been affected.

The laptop in question has been lugged through airports, railway stations and all over the place, and so it's quite possible that the HDD failed through mechanical wear and tear, pure and simple. But the failure coming so soon after it was nuked for 10 minutes continuously in an x-ray machine makes me a tad sceptical at the assertion that x-rays have no effect whatsoever on hard drives.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-21-2007 11:22 AM

That the hard drive parameters (serial number, size, type) seemed to not function suggests that the problem is not with the magnetic information stored on the drive, but rather with some part of the drive controller. Perhaps an EPROM chip on the controller board got erased?

The point being, this might not have implications for the data, which is stored magnetically...

I'm pretty surprised that they might keep the machine running continuously for 10 minutes. There are lots of things that can be damaged by long exposure to X rays, but can easily tolerate a few seconds'. You know, undeveloped camera film (hmm, few tourists carry that anymore), young children left in the baggage (oops!), pygmy monkeys hidden in underwear (there was a recent New York Times story...ah, smugglers), etc.

--jhawk

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-22-2007 03:31 AM

Point taken. I didn't have any children or animals in the bag, but there was indeed a roll of camera film. Thankfully, it had just been loaded into the camera and no photos had been taken on it. After its prolonged stay in the x-ray machine I didn't even try to use it - I just binned it and bought another roll.

As a general rule I take exposed but undeveloped films back with me, get them developed at a nearby shop and scan them at home. But if x-ray machine incidents like this are going to become commonplace, I might think about getting them developed at a one-hour place in the city I'm visiting, before getting checking in for the return flight.

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Joel N. Weber II
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Somerville, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 04-22-2007 02:32 PM

I wonder if the change in air pressure might also stress the drive. The cabin inside a jet is normally pressurized to approximately what the atmospheric pressure is 8,000 to 10,000 feet above sea level.

Obviously drives normally survive the experience, but I suspect for a drive that was near dying, that pressure change might be enough to finish it off.

I would certainly not make the assumption that all drive firmware will reliably return the drive type during a major mechanical malfunction; this doesn't necessarily strike me as a case that the firmware authors would test extensively. I could also imagine firmware which might react to the loss of the first couple tracks by not being able to return the drive type. (Is there any publicly available information on whether modern drives might be storing some of their firmware in hidden sectors on the magnetic platters?)

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-22-2007 02:44 PM

From Wikipedia:

quote:
The hard disk's spindle system relies on air pressure inside the enclosure to support the heads at their proper flying height while the disk is in motion. A hard disk requires a certain range of air pressures in order to operate properly. The connection to the external environment and pressure occurs through a small hole in the enclosure (about 1/2 mm in diameter), usually with a carbon filter on the inside (the breather filter, see below). If the air pressure is too low, there will not be enough lift for the flying head, the head will not be at the proper height, and there is a risk of head crashes and data loss. Specially manufactured sealed and pressurized disks are needed for reliable high-altitude operation, above about 10,000 feet (3,000 m). This does not apply to pressurized enclosures, like an airplane pressurized cabin. Modern disks include temperature sensors and adjust their operation to the operating environment.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 04-22-2007 06:45 PM

Yes, typical airliner cabin pressure is equivalent to around 8000' to 8500'. We try not to let the cabin get to 10,000' since at that point the overhead oxygen masks will automatically deploy. At that point we get to see who paid attention to the pre-departure cabin safety announcements. [Big Grin]

My company flies non-stop into Rockford, IL and South Bend, IN from here. Three days off every week and free Space-A travel. Hmmm, a short Chicago area vacation...

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-22-2007 07:39 PM

quote: Leo Enticknap
The laptop in question has been lugged through airports, railway stations and all over the place, and so it's quite possible that the HDD failed through mechanical wear and tear, pure and simple. But the failure coming so soon after it was nuked for 10 minutes continuously in an x-ray machine makes me a tad sceptical at the assertion that x-rays have no effect whatsoever on hard drives.

One possibility is that during the 10-minute wait on the conveyer belt, the HDD was exposed to strong magnetic fields from the conveyer belt drive motors or braking system.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-23-2007 01:13 AM

quote: Paul Mayer
We try not to let the cabin get to 10,000' since at that point the overhead oxygen masks will automatically deploy. At that point we get to see who paid attention to the pre-departure cabin safety announcements.

Apparently Prince William's now former girlfriend, whose mother was a flight attendant, would be repeatedly wound up by his friends at parties, who would chant 'The bag may not inflate!'.

What charming company he kept...

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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 04-23-2007 01:46 AM

I have a Apple Powerbook G-4 laptop computer with a 12 inch screen and I have been using it for almost three years and I love it. However, I had two major problems with it last December when the hard drive died and it was replaced. Two weeks after getting the computer back from my local Apple store with a new hard drive when they worked on it in house for two days, my screen went dark and it had to be sent out for a new one. Ever since I got my laptop back with a new screen, I have been having no problem with the computer so far. My Apple Care protection plan expires in July and I am now wondering if I should invest in a new laptop at that time or wait until it dies than buy a new one? What is the expected life of a three year old Apple laptop computer after it got a new hard drive and screen recently?

-Claude

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 04-23-2007 02:12 AM

...if your looking for a good laugh, go visit any one of the Nova Cinemas. Its film done wrong. They have a few places all over the place, but I believe IL is their homebase. I had the displeasure of visiting a couple of their cinemas. Scratched prints, incompetent employees, horrible presentation. Its worth the ticket price just to experience EVERYTHING not to do. [thumbsup]

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-23-2007 02:34 AM

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
My Apple Care protection plan expires in July and I am now wondering if I should invest in a new laptop at that time or wait until it dies than buy a new one? What is the expected life of a three year old Apple laptop computer after it got a new hard drive and screen recently?

Personally I wouldn't see any point in buying a new one before your existing one dies, unless there are things you want to do with it that it's now not powerful enough for, e.g. run processor intensive applications. It probably doesn't make much sense upgrading a three year old laptop (e.g. putting more memory in it), because the additional components are unlikely to be recyclable into a new one: but if you're happy with the performance of your existing machine I can't see any point in replacing it before you have to. The later you leave it, the higher the spec you'll get within a given budget for a replacement machine.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-23-2007 03:12 PM

It may be a little late for Chicago suggestions, but Gino's East is definitely good pizza! Hands-down the best pizza I've ever had. Going there for supper and then going to McClurg Court's basement theater made for a great night's entertainment!

I don't care for thin crust pizza, so I can't vouch for the places that Mark recommended.

Pizzaria Uno, even in Chicago, is unremarkable. We went there once when it was too far to get to Gino's East, and that was a mistake.

I've never had a chance to check out Lou Malnati's in person, but their frozen delivered pizzas are great! If they're better in person, that would be worth checking out as well.

The downtown Ed Debevic's was fun back in the late 80's, but I haven't been there since. No pizza, but diner food that represents all that is bad for you but great anway.

It's not pizza, but if you like caramel corn, stop by a Garrett's and pick some up. I got some CaramelCrisp when I was there in February. Good stuff!

Oh, and distances in Chicago are always measured in minutes, not miles. While I'm certain that it can't hold a candle to really congested areas like L.A., you can never predict accurately how long it will take to get from point A to point B.

I worked in Oak Brook and lived in St. Charles, which is about an 8 mile drive. It normally took 45 minutes, but could extend to 90 minutes on a bad day. I also made the trek from various western suburbs to Milwaukee for a couple of years back in the late 80's, and even at 2am, the freeway could get backed up for no apparent reason. I don't think that has changed at all. Now, when I need to go to downtown Chicago, I take Amtrak or Metra. It's much easier on the blood pressure!

If you happen to be driving past Oak Brook Mall, stop at Hamburger University (McDonalds HQ). By far, the best quality McDonalds I've ever eaten at. They would have executives come down and work the counters once in a while, and people had to work at area restaurants and apply to work at this one in particular after proving themselves capable. I don't know if they are still there, but it's worth a stop if you're in the area.

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