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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Topic: Transformers to premiere on cable pay-per-view, same day as box office?!
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-23-2007 12:29 PM
quote: Mike Williams
It's only a matter of time before some pirate figures out how to copy/decrypt/convert to Divx a digital cinema file. I can see it now... The method gets perfected and released to the net, every 18 year old "projectionist" with a laptop will be a potential pirate.
There's a number of problems with that.
The security keys used are pretty difficult to break. It's not like reverse engineering the serial number from an old copy of Photoshop. I've seen the data in these "keys." It would be a bitch to have to manually type in all that gobbledygook.
The way the movie data is water-marked, it would be easy to identify which virtual print was used and tie it to the specific theater where the data was sourced.
It would take a pretty intensive inside job of sorts for any cracker to figure out how to break down the DCI security setup and remove the water marking from the movie data. And that would greatly increase the chances for the cracker to get caught.
Even if the cracker could figure out how to remove all the security measures, he's still going to be stuck with a HUGE file that is not playable on any kind of mainstream computer equipment.
No one is going to download a giant sized file that needs its own 300GB external hard disc to store. This was one of the reasons why there was hardly any data security measures applied at all to D-VHS "d-theater" releases. There's just too much data.
The huge playback bandwidth is another problem. You need a high end RAID setup and appropriately compatible computer software to play back the data at its required bit rates of up to 250 million bits per second. Good luck on that. Further, you need other unique software that can manipulate the data and down-sample it to file sizes that other users can actually play before it can be uploaded to the Internet.
Basically, a cracker would have a much greater chance of success if he broke into the post production studio and got hold of the original 2K files before they were converted over to the DCI format. But then he would be dealing with much larger HD-SDI bandwidth files requiring even more disc space.
And then you have to figure that people who watch pirated movies on the Internet don't really give a damn about quality. They'll stupidly waste 2 hours of their life watching some camcorder footage. Why these idiots even breathe oxygen doesn't make any sense. They must not have the brain cells to need it. Or they simply have assholes for eyes since they like looking at shit.
In the end, the thing the pirates want the most is one of those screener DVDs. Lots easier to duplicate and upload. And there's enough unethical morons in Hollywood willing to provide the things.
If there's one threat posed against d-cinema files, it's not from geeks who want to upload pirated movies from their bedrooms.
Industrial espionage and industrial scale pirating operations in places like China do pose a threat. They have the money and resources to acquire d-cinema playback equipment and then figure out ways how get the data onto bootleg HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs. Again, this would be a more complicated, cumbersome and risky process than duping DVDs. Chances are much greater the studios would find the "rats" in their operations and prosecute viciously. And pirated movies are only good while a movie is in theatrical release. With such shrinking release windows the extra effort required to cater to an even smaller market just wouldn't be worth it at this point.
[ 06-23-2007, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-23-2007 04:29 PM
quote: Mike Williams
When the hackers get by the security, all that is left is to covert the source file to a format like DivX so it would be smaller and easier to manage. I am sure that could be done on a laptop right at the theater.
Mike, you seem to be missing the point regarding the nature of those d-cinema data files. It isn't something that can be handled by ordinary computers. You're sure not going to be able to mess around with it using a laptop. There isn't a single laptop on the planet that can sustain those hard disc I/O levels.
Convert to DiVX? Why bother?
Why reduce such a high bandwidth video format down to something so comparatively shitty as DiVX when the same, low quality end result can be achieved by simply using a screener DVD or dopey camcorder footage?
Sure, criminals in China and other nations will try to subvert data from d-cinema virtual prints and perhaps use the data as a master for bootleg HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs.
But Hollywood studios are going to constantly counter the threat with ever shifting versions of data encryption and force more real time software activation. There is a lot of concern about theaters having to upgrade digital projectors or replace them outright after only a few years of service. I think it's far more likely theaters will be upgrading or replacing their playback servers every couple of years or so.
Even companies like Microsoft and Adobe have cut down on a good amount of piracy against their mainstream software products by requiring them to "phone home" and validate themselves before they can be used or fixed with software updates. Those companies could deliberately stick some poison pill defect into the retail product that can only be fixed by their servers remotely. I've already had a couple of updates in my Adobe CS3 applications.
Meanwhile, the Hollywood screener DVDs are still widely available and used in a very casual manner, making it easy for the discs to fall into the hands of movie pirates. Those screener DVDs are often available well before the theatrical release and well ahead of distribution of those large capacity hard disc virtual prints. That makes the screener DVDs even more valuable to pirates than their far more unwieldy d-cinema counterparts.
In fact, when mass production piracy operations start doing things in HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, they're going to be doing so by way of duping screener discs in HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. I'm pretty skeptical any highly proprietary d-cinema disc is ever going to be much of an inviting target to pirates at all. The alternatives are much easier to manipulate and acquire.
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Christopher Meredith
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 126
From: Jackson, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2006
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posted 06-23-2007 07:50 PM
quote: "Bobby Henderson"
And then you have to figure that people who watch pirated movies on the Internet don't really give a damn about quality. They'll stupidly waste 2 hours of their life watching some camcorder footage. Why these idiots even breathe oxygen doesn't make any sense. They must not have the brain cells to need it. Or they simply have assholes for eyes since they like looking at shit.
This is the kind of nonsense that exemplifies the industry's view of so-called "pirates" in the first place. The people who download and watch cam recordings of films are not people who think its a comparable experience and are doing it to save a few bucks. They are, more often than not, the die-hard fans of the film and are the same folks who buy advance tickets and who go to the theater multiple times. This was certainly the case when I was in colelge and film franchises such as LOTR, the Matrix, and Star Wars prequels were active. My roommates, brotehr, and even myself were scouring the net for "bootlegs" so we could be the first to see the movie, then when it was released, we (well, my roommates anyway) were those guys you see camping out for tickets.
Anyway, the upshot is that I don't see "piracy" as anything otehr than a minor, secondary-at-best concern for the industry. Certainly nothing as blown out of proportion as it has become.
And I also agree that hacking the DCI keys is only a matter of time. And with more advanced video codecs appearaing (x.264 as an example), I have no trouble believeing that a 300+GB source file can be compressed into a 4.7 GB file that would look incredible on an HDTV. We're already seeing that with rips from BD and HD-DVD sources.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-23-2007 09:11 PM
quote: Christopher Meredith
This is the kind of nonsense that exemplifies the industry's view of so-called "pirates" in the first place.
Wrong.
The movie industry acts like it's losing a bunch of money to huge numbers of people watching bootleg recordings as if those bootlegs are an equal quality product. I don't think it's nearly as big a problem as Hollywood leads people to believe.
My stance is anyone watching a bootleg on the Internet is wasting his time in a pretty stupid manner. I also stand 100% with my comment that anyone going out of their way to watch those kinds of low quality recordings definitely must have assholes for eyes. The lack of taste definitely points in that direction.
quote: Christopher Meredith
My roommates, brotehr, and even myself were scouring the net for "bootlegs" so we could be the first to see the movie, then when it was released, we (well, my roommates anyway) were those guys you see camping out for tickets.
My response to someone gloating over seeing the movie first by way of an Internet bootleg: "Congratulations. You're an idiot." That comment goes double for any big epic movie that millions were itching to see.
I couldn't be made to give one rat's ass about seeing the movie before everyone else if I had to watch it in a Shit-O-Vision bootleg download from the Internet. Basically I would be ruining my first impression of the film by watching it in such a stupidly compromised manner.
Further, who gives a fuck who saw the movie first? If that sort of bullcrap matters at all, the people who made the movie are the real people who saw the movie first.
I would much rather wait a few days for the legitimate theatrical release where I can see the movie play on a great big screen with very good quality projection (film or digital) and very good quality digital surround sound. For certain event movies I have been willing to drive hundreds of miles to watch the film for the first time in better quality formats like 70mm.
If I am going to take 2 hours out of my life to sit still and watch a movie I want that experience to meet certain quality standards. Internet bootlegs don't meet that standard at all.
This kinds of gets down to one tactic I think Hollywood should be using to fight movie piracy. Ridicule the people stupid enough to waste their time downloading the movie and ruining their first impression of that show in by way of a low quality format.
To use another analogy, some new great steak house could be opening in my city. One person who is patient enough waits for the place to open and visits when he can get a good meal, good service and an overall good experience. Meanwhile, the other guy gets hold of some of the raw materials the restaurant serves and tries to cook it up himself in his kitchen at 3:00am and eats it alone on the couch dressed only in his underwear. He ate it before the restaurant opened up to the public. But can he actually be seen as being "cool" for doing that? More likely can the guy avoid being laughed at when attempting to brag about it?
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Mark J. Marshall
Film God
Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 06-24-2007 11:18 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
The security keys used are pretty difficult to break. It's not like reverse engineering the serial number from an old copy of Photoshop. I've seen the data in these "keys." It would be a bitch to have to manually type in all that gobbledygook.
It's not so much typing them in as much as it is calculating the other member of the key pair - which is practically impossible. I'm guessing that the key used to decrypt the movie is a symmetrical key, which itself is encrypted to the projector's personal public key. Then, only the projector can decrypt that gobbledygook you're seeing into the REAL gobbledygook that actually decrypts the movie files. Incidentally, I've also looked at these key files, and if I'm not mistaken, there appears to be seven keys for a standard movie. One for the video, and one for each of the six tracks of audio. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that. But either way, good luck breaking in, Mike!
quote: Bobby Henderson
The way the movie data is water-marked, it would be easy to identify which virtual print was used and tie it to the specific theater where the data was sourced.
What does the watermarking? It seems to me it almost has to be generated by some component of the projector or the server. Is that done on the fly?
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