|
|
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Opinions on Conceal Carry Permits?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-01-2007 03:38 PM
I overlooked this earlier post, but had to respond to a few points:
quote: Chad Souder
I'm not sure what anyone's hang-up is with the 9mm. Of course there are more powerful rounds, but if you want to get in a pissing match just buy a 10mm and be done with it.
Gun companies are phasing out 10mm. Good luck on finding ammo in 10mm. Get ready to pay some $$$ if you do.
I think the choice is simple. If you just need stopping power in a semi-auto pistol, get one chambered in .45 AUTO. If you need effective stopping power and high capacity, get something chambered in .357 Sig.
9mm has two advantages, if you can really call them advantages: cheaper ammunition and higher magazine capacity. You may end up needing those extra bullets. .45 AUTO and .357 Sig are far more proven to deliver "one shot stops."
quote: Chad Souder
the 9mm+P is every bit as powerful as the .40 anyway
This overlooks the fact there's a wide variety of choices in .40 S&W ammunition, including hollow point rounds up to 180 grains in weight.
Some .40 S&W pistols can easily swap barrels for .357 Sig. I have both .357 Sig and .40 S&W barrels for my SigSauer P226. You don't have to change recoil springs and the magazines will hold both types of ammunition. Pretty nice to have that kind of versatility in just one gun.
quote: Chad Souder
The 9mm bullet, actually, is the exact same projectile as the .357 sig shoots, only the .357 sig is moving faster.
The slugs have roughly the same diameter, but vary on weight. 9mm slugs can weigh from 95 to 147 grains and have a variety of different charges behind them. Most .357 Sig slugs weigh 125 grains but are seated on a necked down .40 caliber shell casing.
Contrary to what some claim, not all 9mm pistols are designed to fire +P loads. The .357 Sig cartridge can deliver more power and velocity than a +P 9mm load. Some .357 Sig ammunition is nearly as powerful as .357 Magnum. Pistols originally chambered for .357 Sig are designed to handle the extra stress of the .357 Sig round.
quote: Chad Souder
The 9mm rounds also weigh less, which can make a big difference if carrying concealed for an extended time.
Weight differences between identical pistols loaded either in 9mm or .40 S&W are very minor. Keep in mind a pistol chambered in 9mm will hold at least a couple more rounds of ammunition than a pistol chambered in .40 S&W or .357 Sig. Fully loaded, that 9mm gun could end up weighing a little more, not less. If that difference is really an issue, then that person needs to step down to a smaller gun.
quote: Chad Souder
The problem, as you detailed so well, is the bullet, not the caliber. Ball ammo was never intended for self-defense. A recent study by the Illinois State Police showed their 9mm to be 87% lethally effective.
The caliber definitely has something to do with the issue, along with the type of bullet being used.
American military service people are confined to using ball ammunition with few exceptions allowed. 9mm is ineffective for personal defense (as are a number of other bullets near that size in FMJ loads). 230 grain ball ammunition in .45 AUTO can be an effective man-stopper. This is why many in the military are campaigning hard to do away with the Beretta 92F as the standard military side arm.
Many commanding officers have already had their troops switch out to .45 caliber weapons. Some are using classic 1911 style pistols. Others are using newer models from SigSauer (the P220) and Heckler & Koch (the USP 45 and the new H&K 45). The "Joint Combat Pistol" trials have still not been settled. H&K, SigSauer, Smith & Wesson and a few others are competing to provide the American military with one standard pistol for combat troops. One thing is absolutely certain: the winning pistol will not be chambered in 9mm. It will be a .45. If they could hollow point ammunition they would probably go with .357 Sig. More and more law enforcement agencies in the United States are adopting .357 Sig.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-01-2007 09:51 PM
Nobody is arguing against the effectiveness of any other caliber. Of course there are more powerful choices, but if that is really your hang-up, go away from pistols and switch to revolvers completely. Get yourself a 500 and have the ability to (cue the Kurt Russell voice) turn a head into a canoe, because you don't want someone dead, you want them really, super-duper dead.
For years cops got by with a .38 service revolver as their side-arm. They somehow managed back then. Maybe the drugs are better now.
I think it has less to do with numbers on paper and more about what you're comfortable with. This thread was originally about concealed carry, which are typically smaller framed guns, which would make you lean toward a round with less recoil, which may be a smaller caliber like a 9mm. The reason the 10mm didn't catch on was becasue trained professionals couldn't keep it on target. A gun doesn't do you much good if you can't hit something with it. Again, its all about what you're comfortable with. I have never seen a .45 or a .357 Sig that I would feel comfortable carrying on my ankle. There are different guns for different applications.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-02-2007 12:38 AM
quote: Chad Souder
Nobody is arguing against the effectiveness of any other caliber. Of course there are more powerful choices, but if that is really your hang-up, go away from pistols and switch to revolvers completely.
Actually I am arguing the effectiveness of certain calibers. For high capacity semi-auto handguns 9mm just isn't good enough especially when compared to alternatives like .357 Sig or going .45 AUTO when limited to using ball ammunition.
Revolvers have lost much of their appeal for purposes of self defense. Modern semi-auto handguns are far more reliable than they were a couple decades ago. They have higher capacity, reload much faster and have a longer sight radius that translates into more accurate shot placement.
A large "hand-cannon" revolver such as the Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum or a Ruger Super Redhawk is impractical for most purposes of self defense. They're better used for hunting medium to fairly large sized animals. Someone might be able to use something like that for home defense. Just don't let an attacker get close enough to grab that long gun barrel.
Some women have to use smaller revolvers, such as a 38 special that can also load .357 Magnum cartridges. It takes a certain amount of strength to rack the slide on a semi-auto handgun, hand strength some women just don't have. The revolvers they have to settle on using often have pretty heavy double action triggers and often need to be modified.
quote: Chad Souder
For years cops got by with a .38 service revolver as their side-arm. They somehow managed back then.
I can point out cases where they didn't manage. A .38 revolver sucks it big time. Specifically, I recall the late 1980s case of Elanor Bumpers, a large lady who lived in a New York City apartment building. While wielding a butcher knife she ran down a main hallway at two NYPD officers. Both officers emptied their .38 revolvers into the lady and she was still able to jump on the officers before finally bleeding to death. The public was outraged she was shot 12 times. Few understood the bullets hitting her had little stopping power.
quote: Chad Souder
I have never seen a .45 or a .357 Sig that I would feel comfortable carrying on my ankle.
Who says you have to carry the gun on your ankle? Most guns, even something like a Walther PPK, are impractical to carry there.
There's lots of ways how you can conceal carry "full power" semi auto pistols with compact and subcompact sized frames.
Also, it should be noted that many people obtain a conceal carry permit just so they can legally keep a loaded pistol in their car.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-02-2007 02:17 PM
quote: Bobby Henderson
A large "hand-cannon" revolver such as the Smith & Wesson .500 Magnum or a Ruger Super Redhawk is impractical for most purposes of self defense.
Ruger makes an Alaskan with a barrel shorter than 3" that handles either the 500 or the .44. It is specifically designed for self defense. Most conflicts happen within 12', so sighting is not as much of an issue as you would think.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Some women have to use smaller revolvers, such as a 38 special that can also load .357 Magnum cartridges.
Its the other way around. A .38 can't load a .357, but any .357 can load a .38. A revolver disigned only for the .38 is considerably smaller than one that can carry the .357.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Who says you have to carry the gun on your ankle? Most guns, even something like a Walther PPK, are impractical to carry there.
I say. That's where I want to carry it. Most guns are indeed impractical to carry there and that's the whole point. Find something that works with what you want.
quote: Bobby Henderson
There's lots of ways how you can conceal carry "full power" semi auto pistols with compact and subcompact sized frames.
No, there are not. If you wear dress pants, a dress shirt and tie, but no jacket, you are limited to only inside the pants or your ankle, unless you care to sport a fanny pack all day. Inside the pants holsters can be very uncomfortable, or quite comfortable, depending on your body and the gun. For Mark on page 1, a .357 is too big to carry concealed and that is OK. Some off duty cops tend to wear fanny packs, but most wear casual enough clothing that they can leave their shirt untucked with a high sitting, outside the pant holster. For me, I couldn't get an inside the pant style to quit digging into my hip bone. My Galco ankle lite holster is very comfortable.
Maybe some day if you actually get a permit to carry concealed you will become aware of some realities associated with the process, but until then, take the word of some of us that have been doing it awhile.
Would Brad, Hillary or anyone else that actually carries concealed care to disclose what they carry and where they carry it?
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-02-2007 03:13 PM
quote: Chad Souder
Ruger makes an Alaskan with a barrel shorter than 3" that handles either the 500 or the .44. It is specifically designed for self defense. Most conflicts happen within 12', so sighting is not as much of an issue as you would think.
Sure. Sighting won't be an issue with short barrel big bore revolver. The person trying to use it will be wincing instead of aiming due to fear of heavy recoil. A short or snubby revolver in .500 is a laughably stupid weapon to own. Revolvers, generally speaking, have no remaining advantages over semi-auto handguns for self defense purposes.
quote: Chad Souder
Maybe some day if you actually get a permit to carry concealed you will become aware of some realities associated with the process, but until then, take the word of some of us that have been doing it awhile.
Don't talk down to me like I am some newbie at handling guns. Just because you want to carry a pistol on your ankle doesn't mean everyone else has to do so. Most people I know who carry don't carry there.
In case you believe the ankle is the only "correct" place to carry, look at the disadvantages of that method. First, you're stuck with tiny guns usually in wimpy ass calibers. Even still, there's a strong chance you're going to get "made" by other people when your gun still "prints" through your slacks or jeans. You might be able to get around that by wearing cowboy boots and boot cut jeans. But then the cowboy look is pretty stupid or even inappropriate in some places. Tactically speaking, it's downright stupid to have to bend down, stoop or crouch just to get your weapon. It takes extra time and places you in a vulnerable, off balance position.
Despite your own experience, there's several makes of inside the waistband holsters that work very well. The Crossbreed Supertuck and Comp-Tac "MTAC" models are among the most popular and are highly adjustable. Like all IWB holsters, they don't work when combined with the American habit of people wearing slacks and jeans that are too tight (due to them getting fat yet not wanting to buy new clothes). If your own physique just doesn't allow for IWB, then that's your own problem. Not mine.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-05-2007 10:22 AM
I really don't want to keep this going and I apologize in advance for the long post, but I don't want any other Film-Tech members to casually read this and get misleading information. Bobby, I don't understand why you ask to "hear from any F-T members that have carry permits" just so you can bash what people respond with. If you ask an opinion, don't badger it and answer your own questions. I feel I must clear up some of your inaccuracies for the benefit and safety of others:
quote: Bobby Henderson
They cost twice as much as a garden variety Glock. But they work with a much greater degree of reliability.
quote: Bobby Henderson
But I've heard lots of problem stories regarding them as well. Our own local police dept. uses .45 caliber Glock pistols as their standard duty sidearm. Most of the officers don't like them for various reasons.
What reasons? Please be more specific. Glocks are great guns. MUCH greater degree of reliability? That's just plain wrong. What evidence do you have to support that? Glock recently became the best selling pistol of all time, with fewer than 10,000 destroyed due to unrepairable failure. That is a great, low number. They are extremely reliable, which is why so many other companies, including your XD, have mirrored their usage of polymer. If anyone reading this is considering buying a Glock and finds it comfortable (the only complaint I've heard is that some don't like the grip angle or the grip), buy with confidence.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Gun companies are phasing out 10mm. Good luck on finding ammo in 10mm. Get ready to pay some $$$ if you do.
Not really. 10mm has a passionate, cult following. Its not going anywhere. Right now on doubletapammo.com (where I shop), you can get 50 10mm for $28. Your beloved .357 sig ammo is $26, or $24 in bulk. That's a difference of around $.04 per round. I guess that really breaks your bank. .357 is just as exotic as 10mm and the only reason its cheaper is, and I repeat here, it is EXACTLY the same projectile as the 9mm. Not "roughly" as you said, exactly. If cost is that much of an issue where $.04 is going to get you, look into reloading where you can save a bunch.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Many commanding officers have already had their troops switch out to .45 caliber weapons.
That's true, but do you know why this course of events even happened? In case you or don't or anyone else is curious, I'll tell you. Due to its slow speed and large size, .45 ammo in WW2 was bouncing off German kevlar, so they started testing 9mm. Smaller and faster moving, the 9mm bullets would penetrate the vest. By the time our government's speed got the change out on the field, the vests had caught up to the 9mm as well, so it became a moot point, but that was the initial reason. When Clinton was elected President, he ordered all guns to be destroyed that were not in service. Bush lifted that order and gave officers the choice for their men to carry whatever they wanted. Many switched away from the 9mm for obvious power advantages. The Navy Seals, however, still use 9mm. Why? I don't know, but I'm thinking they have a pretty good reason.
quote: Bobby Henderson
In case you believe the ankle is the only "correct" place to carry
I don't believe that and I've never said anything to indicate that. Whatever works best for you. For me, ankle is the best. For Hillary, it may be a purse. Whatever.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Revolvers, generally speaking, have no remaining advantages over semi-auto handguns for self defense purposes.
Not true. There are two advantages. Only two, yes, but two nonetheless. 1: A revolver can't jam. Even if its one-in-a-million, it can't jam. If there is a misfire, you just pull the trigger again. No breaking your sight-line and changing your hand position to work the slide, just pull the trigger again. 2: Bigger calibers in a smaller frame. Grip size is not an issue with revolvers, so a lady can carry the SP101 for example, which has a nice small grip and can shoot a .357 mag. Just point and click, so to speak.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Don't talk down to me like I am some newbie at handling guns.
I don't think you are a newbie at handling them, just about carrying concealed, which, by your own admission, you've never legally done.
quote: Randy Stankey
Thus, if you had a round of .45 cal. ball being tested (in ballistic gel) against a 9mm jacketed hollow point, you might find that the .45 goes clean through where the 9mm goes in a few inches then leaves a large cavity.
I don't know much about ballistic gel, but in a person they should actually be the other way around, due to diameter. You're absolutely right, Randy, regarding expanding upon impact. Assuming we're not talking about hollow points, the .45 is so fat and slow that it distorts and blobs around, leaving all its energy in the target, making it an excellent choice for self-defense. The 9mm is very fast and small and will go clean through people if it doesn't hit a bone. Once it hits, it can carom off in any direction the path of least resistance takes it, making it a good choice only if you have concerns about recoil, weight, control, money, or shooting through doors.
quote: Bobby Henderson
If your own physique just doesn't allow for IWB, then that's your own problem. Not mine.
That's xactly right. If it is a problem, look at an alternative option.
My point with all this is not to spew out information to make others think I know a lot, but rather to suggest to people considering carrying concealed to DO THEIR HOMEWORK. This is a very serious decision, not something to make you feel cool. It is VITAL to have a gun that you are comfortable with, not something that just looks good on paper. You can get away with something you're not comfortable with at the range, because the target won't hurt you back. Whatever works best for you, that's the right choice.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-05-2007 10:22 PM
quote: Chad Souder
Bobby, I don't understand why you ask to "hear from any F-T members that have carry permits" just so you can bash what people respond with.
You may have missed what I wrote on page 1 to begin this thread.
Most gun owners I personally know, as well as gun owners I talk to on various firearms forums on the Internet, are very conservative and often pretty macho in their attitudes about issues like gun ownership and conceal carry. It's difficult to get the more "middle of the road" point of view from those sources.
As to my bashing of responses please look at your insistence of 9mm and carrying a gun on your ankle as being the best solution.
quote: Chad Souder
What reasons? Please be more specific. Glocks are great guns. MUCH greater degree of reliability? That's just plain wrong. What evidence do you have to support that?
I know the Lawton Police Department armory has lots of Glock 21 pistols with broken or defective parts. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol has standardized on the Sig P226 chambered in .357 Sig (just like the Texas DPS officers). Glock's plastic magazines aren't great. Overall, the quality control at Glock has slipped over the years. Quite a few LPD officers hate Glocks but have had their requests denied to use other types of .45 caliber pistols. Since the early 1990s Glocks have had numerous problems. Here's one link for some documented examples:
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html
Glocks are more prone than a lot of other pistols to a "kB!" or "kaBOOM!" -basically where the round explodes in the gun and risks injuring the shooter seriously. There have been lots of confirmed "kB!" incidents in larger caliber Glocks, but only a couple in 9mm models. One reason Glocks are more prone to "kB!" is because the chamber is not fully supported. Bar-Sto has after market custom barrels for Glock pistols to combat that design flaw.
quote: Chad Souder
They are extremely reliable, which is why so many other companies, including your XD, have mirrored their usage of polymer.
The use of polymer can be argued to be a cost cutting measure, not something that actually improves quality over guns with alloy frames. The frame and grip is all one piece (unless the frame has interchangeable back-straps to adjust grip like the Sig Pro and newer H&K pistols) Most new SigSauer pistols and modern 1911 style .45 pistols have both their slides and frames precision CNC machined, not stamped or molded. Such guns are arguably more durable and reliable. The process definitely makes them more expensive than polymer framed pistols.
My XD-40 subcompact is indeed a "tupperware gun." I think it has all of the advantages of a Glock and few drawbacks. SigSauer doesn't have a true subcompact model, and certainly nothing in the price range of the XD. I'm not going to mind so much in scuffing and scratching up a $500 handgun with holster use as much as I will a $900 gun. My Sig P226 remains my first option for home defense. And with the carry permit, I'll likely carry the P226 in my truck as well.
quote: Chad Souder
Not really. 10mm has a passionate, cult following.
"Cult following" can also be translated into: very few people buy it.
quote: Chad Souder
The Navy Seals, however, still use 9mm. Why? I don't know, but I'm thinking they have a pretty good reason.
The Navy Seals are no longer exclusively using the SigSauer P226 "Navy" 9mm model. They have been transitioning to a number of different .45 caliber pistols, including the SigSauer P220, classic 1911 style .45 pistols and the expensive Heckler & Koch Mark 23 pistol complete with a threaded barrel and custom made suppressor. The Navy Seals are currently evaluating the H&K .45, a new SigSauer P220 Tactical model and a number of other pistol designs. They are not sticking with 9mm.
Regarding the previously mentioned gun caliber history, politics, particularly being friendly to certain European interests, played a big part in the US DOD adopting 9mm.
quote: Chad Souder
I don't believe that and I've never said anything to indicate that.
When I said "there's lots of ways how one can carry a full power caliber pistol" you said "no, there is not." In the context of that last post it certainly sounded like you insisted the ankle is the only place to correctly carry a concealed handgun.
quote: Chad Souder
A revolver can't jam. Even if its one-in-a-million, it can't jam. If there is a misfire, you just pull the trigger again.
Most modern semi-auto handguns are much better in quality than older semi-autos, particularly ones in the $500 and up price brackets. They're far less likely to jam from design flaws. Many have precision CNC machined parts unlike cast and stamped parts in guns of the past. My P226 has never jammed. Couple that with ammunition capacity double that or more than a standard revolver. That combination is difficult to beat. Very few law enforcement agencies in the United States carry revolvers anymore. That's a good enough example for me.
A common cause of a gun jam is poor shooting form. A weak or limp wristed hold can interfere with the recoil operation of the gun, robbing backward momentum of the slide. You can have a failure to extract, failure to feed or even a "stovepipe" where the empty shell casing is stuck in the ejector port.
quote: Chad Souder
Assuming we're not talking about hollow points, the .45 is so fat and slow that it distorts and blobs around, leaving all its energy in the target, making it an excellent choice for self-defense. The 9mm is very fast and small and will go clean through people if it doesn't hit a bone.
Some of that speed difference depends on the load of the 9mm round. If a JHP round is used, it is far less likely to over-penetrate. 115 grain ball ammo in 9mm clocks at around 1100fps. Heavier 147g 9mm ball ammo isn't nearly as fast (and won't penetrate as much either).
Depending on the material being hit, sometimes a slower (and sometimes heavier) bullet actually penetrates better. The Mythbusters TV series demonstrated how slower handgun bullets can effectively penetrate ballistics gel under up to several feet of water. High powered rifle bullets shatter when hitting the water surface, including a .50 caliber 600 grain bullet fired from a Barrett sniper rifle. This test was to "confirm" the myth of movie characters being able to swim underwater away from gunfire without getting hit. It also makes one of the early action points in Saving Private Ryan (soldiers underwater getting shot and killed) at least somewhat questionable.
quote: Chad Souder
My point with all this is not to spew out information to make others think I know a lot, but rather to suggest to people considering carrying concealed to DO THEIR HOMEWORK.
I've been doing that for quite some time -particularly in studying Oklahoma's current self defense statutes and cases where people have legally defended themselves with firearms. I hope I'm never in a position where I have to defend my life with deadly force. But I want to be prepared in case I am forced to do it.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 11-06-2007 01:41 AM
Randy -
I was incorrect in my analysis of the .45 vs. the 9mm earlier and for that, I sincerely apologize. After some quick research, the .45 holds its line much better and does indeed penetrate ballistic gel deeper and so it presumably also penetrates a human target deeper and perhaps continues clean through as you suggested. I was thinking in terms of hard targets, such as vests or metal, not in terms of soft tissue. The 9mm, being so light, caroms and squirts around upon impact with "soft tissue". My bad. Forgive me?
For proof of the reliability of Glocks, check this out . I have never seen video of another handgun taking such a stupid amount of heat and stress and continuing to function perfectly. This is the Glock 18, a fully auto that most civilians can't get their hands on.
For the end all of stopping power, go here . Note the part where the guy gets called a big sissy when he decides not to hold it one-handed. Fun stuff.
[ 11-06-2007, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Chad Souder ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 11-06-2007 11:40 PM
The .60 caliber pistol video is hilarious. My father e-mailed me a copy of it a few months ago.
Regarding the Glock video, every reputable gun manufacturer has ads and videos of various extreme torture tests to show the toughness of their pistols. It's basically a current marketing fad.
Here's just a couple of others I found very quickly searching YouTube:
"Firepower TV" torture test of Sig P220 Combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpl0ZJkikNA
German language documentary about Heckler and Koch, including video of their guns getting buried in mud, frozen or put under water yet still being able to fire afterward.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FcsY0zaL3j4
There's lots of others. If anyone searches enough I'm fairly certain they'll find similar videos for just about any good quality make of handgun.
While visually interesting, those torture test videos don't represent real world, long term use of firing many thousands of rounds through a gun.
The test videos can be argued to be ridiculous because no one is going to smack their gun around with a baseball bat, run over it with a bulldozer, drag it on a chain behind a pickup down a dirt road, drop it out of an airplane or freeze it in a solid block of ice and then fire the gun.
Now if anyone really wants the absolute toughest, most dependable, no compromise semi-auto handgun money can currently buy you shouldn't have to look any farther than the Karl Lippard Combat NCO .45 ACP pistol -as long as you have $5000 to spend.
Karl Lippard, a former Marine, is one of the world's most highly respected gunsmiths. He creates custom handguns, rifles and shotguns for customers ranging from CIA agents to heads of state. Some are highly ornate (and very expensive) while others, like the Combat NCO pistol, are made purely for function. Lippard is associated with Joseph Brazier Gunmakers, a very high end British gunmaking firm first established in 1827.
The metal parts of the Combat NCO pistol are machined to extremely precise levels, mostly from S7 vacuum arc remelt steel (extremely strong, yet expensive stuff). The pistol can be ordered in compact, full size and longslide versions. The gun can also be fitted with a suppressor that attaches through a unique frame extension instead of a threaded barrel. The gun's "Lippard Link" has a patent pending and is a big improvement over the barrel link systems found in other 1911 style .45 auto pistols. That extends normal barrel life from the usual 10,000-20,000 rounds fired to over 100,000. The pistol has a number of other unique features making it much easier to use one-handed with either left or right hand. Lippard was wounded in Vietnam during the battle of Cam Ne and had to defend himself with a regular USMC issue Colt 1911 .45. His experiences led him to improve and further refine the original John Browning 1911 A1 designs into what the Combat NCO pistol is today.
Lippard primarily makes the Combat NCO pistol for active duty Marines, other members of the military and people serving with various government and law enforcement agencies. Many of the models he sells to military personnel have to be "cloaked" to look like a standard issue .45. It is illegal for military personnel to use personally owned weapons in combat and they can get into some serious trouble if some bureaucratic type finds out and gets his panties in a twist.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 7 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic