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Author Topic: Flying Lessons (questions) Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-15-2008 01:32 PM                        London City is seriously scary (as a humble passenger, anyway!) to land at. The runway is on reclaimed land in the former dockland area of East London (if you've seen the film Pool of London, it shows you what that part of town was like before the docks declined and the area was regenerated in the late '80s). The glideslope is pretty steep, and if you're landing from north to south, there's a hangar at the end of the runway ... and then the River Thames. Landing in the other direction, there isn't even the hangar. Fail to stop in time, and basically you're taking a swim. It's kind of like landing at Boston coming in over the harbour, only with a much steeper descent and a runway less than half the length! Had I been on that jet (from the 'Ha ha ha - Euromanx is shite!' commment on the YouTube page, I guess that's whose it is), then I wouldn't been so scared at the buffeting about than at the prospect of what would be about to happen if the heavy landing had knackered the brakes...  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-19-2008 08:55 PM                        I suppose London City (LCY) looks scary, but like anything involving applied technology, when used within its limits it is perfectly acceptable. LCY is restricted to STOL (Short Take Off Landing) aircraft only. It's runway is 4900' short and yes, the ILS approach is quite steep at 5.5 degrees (almost double the 3.0 degrees of a typical ILS). Aircraft have to be certified for steep approaches in order to use the airport, and flight crews must go through additional training for those approaches. LCY is one of those places that everyone knows about, so crews tend to be on their toes when operating there. In that sense LCY is like Hong Kong's old Kai Tak, or Washington Reagan National, Aspen, CO or Lugano, Switzerland - unusual but perfectly safe when flown properly. Up until this week the biggest airliner that could use the place was the BAE-146, the type shown in Leo's first video. This week Airbus demonstrated that the A-318 can operate in and out of LCY as well. So now some longer routes (the 318 has twice the range of the 146) can be flown into LCY. As for Leo's video, it must've been one of those days. Even monkeys fall out of trees occasionally. Sounded like it was windy that day, and probably gusty too. That crew looked like it flew the approach a little fast, which is what is supposed to happen in gusty winds. Then right at the flare, it looks like the aircraft flew through a shear, momentarily dropping the headwind component and causing the aircraft to sink. There wasn't enough time or height to recover other than to abruptly pitch up (and power up if there's time), trading speed and momentum for more lift and less sink. Looks like they didn't have quite enough speed/momentum to trade though, especially with the speed brakes already out, resulting in that nice FIRM set of arrivals. The wheel brakes should be just fine - after that arrival in that wind the airplane isn't going very fast, probably not even 100 knots. At least that crew could sign off on their 3-landings in 90-days currency requirement with just that arrival!  |  IP: Logged Jason Black Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1723 From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-20-2008 12:31 PM                        FWIW, I still haven't had the opportunity to pursue these lessons. I will, once money allows, follow through with my plans to become certified, or at least to take the lessons and see if I can make it through..  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 05-20-2008 12:39 PM                        quote: Paul Mayer So now some longer routes (the 318 has twice the range of the 146) can be flown into LCY. Interesting - after the Heathrow Terminal 5 fiasco and the reputation Heathrow is rapidly gaining as the world's worst airport, there must be a potentially lucrative market for higher paying business customers using A318s to fly longer routes out of LCY, thereby avoiding the place altogether. Are there any restrictions on the load (either of passengers and/or fuel) that they can carry, given the very short runway, or can they take off fully loaded? I've only used LCY on two occasions. Unless your destination is in the financial district of east London, it's a pain to get to and from it (to the city centre proper it takes just as long as from Heathrow or Gatwick). The first time was on a return trip from the US, when the inbound transatlantic was delayed and I missed the connection to MME. The only other one that day was fully booked, so they offered me a seat on an AMS-LCY followed by LHR-MME (though I had to make my own way between the two airports). The other time was a day trip for a meeting from Manchester, picking up a colleague who lived about half way between home and the airport. All three of those flights were in Fokker 50s, and the rate of descent did feel very steep.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 05-20-2008 01:47 PM                        It'll come Jason. I ran out of money after my first solo in 1974 and had to wait until 1977 to start up again. Later on I ran out of cash again a couple of times (depended on whether I was in favor or not with the IATSE local at the time). So keep pluggin' at whatever you're doing for money. It'll happen. Leo, I didn't read about how Airbus conducted that demonstration. I was a bit surprised that a 318 could do it at all. But since the article mentioned the 318's longer range, I'm assuming (yeah, I know what that means) that anyone operating a 318 out of LCY will be able to do so with some useful pay and fuel loads. I didn't know that LCY is a pain to get to from anywhere other than the Docklands. But I guess there's enough potential Docklands-only traffic to justify the airport. Lots of well-heeled financial types about these days. I imagine the taxi fare LCY to LHR must be something! I see that the BAA exec in charge of the T5 startup was (pick your favorite - sacked / canned / pink slipped / shown the door / given the boot / given the ax / dejobbed / uninstalled / had the rollers put under him) after that disaster. Maybe someday LHR will again become just a busy airport instead of a passenger nightmare.  |  IP: Logged

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