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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: The Myth that DVD makes all the money
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-24-2008 11:20 AM
I agree that going to a movie theater should be an event. It should be a fun activity that can be enjoyed whether you are 8 or 88.
There are also some movies that are going to be much more enjoyable in the right crowd than they would be at home. I heard a lot of comments like that about Borat, as part of the fun is being part of a crowd that was enjoying it. Get Smart strikes me as just such a movie.
That's what I call the moviegoing experience, and I'm all for movie theaters doing whatever possible to make that experience the best it possibly can be. I would even go so far as to say that it's what movie theaters are in business to do. If all a person wants to do is see a movie, they can wait around 100 days, and watch it at home. In fact, many people with "home theaters" are looking to create that ideal movie-going experience by having the room equipped and decorated (often times, much more nicely than any contemporary multiplex) and a popcorn machine, etc.
But the problem is that many movie theaters squander the opportunity to deliver a really great movie-going experience. They treat customers like cattle, getting them in and out as quickly as possible, and they don't do anything they don't absolutely have to do in order to get people in and out the door. And then they wonder why admissions are down year after year!
I'm more than happy to spend money at a movie theater to see a movie, but that theater should earn that money, not just have it given to them simply because they have exclusive access to the movie I want to see.
I've driven to the Chicago area quite a few times to experience movies at a variety of venues (the Elgin Fox at Mark's suggestion many years ago, McClurg Court before it was closed, etc.) and even gone as far as Dayton, Ohio to experience Cinerama at the New Neon Movies when they were doing those shows back in the 90's.
If I want to have a group experience, I can invite a dozen friends over to watch a movie with me. We make a night of it by making popcorn, putting out boxes of candy (we don't charge $3.50 for that 88 cent box, so we don't have the complete experience down yet), and the lights dim with an intro trailer before the feature begins. We've had 20 kids in our basement watching Cars, and those kids still talk about that night!
To think that a movie has to be seen in a movie theater in order for it to be a legitimate experience is bull. It's only TV if you treat it like TV. When it's in a darkened room that has been designed for that purpose, with a 100" wide screen (33 degree viewing angle) and 7 channels of surround sound, and everyone is there for the same purpose, it's an event just as much as going to a movie theater is (and I would say, better than many movie theaters because of the effort I put into the presentation).
Maybe all of you guys have better theaters than we do around here...
Bottom line is, it's about having options. Studios want to tap the market that is represented by the people that don't attend movie theaters, and they're going to find a way to do it. If theaters don't do their jobs and get those people to come to the movies in their theaters, the studios will find a way to get those movies into those people's homes.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-24-2008 12:52 PM
quote: Scott Jentsch
If I want to have a group experience, I can invite a dozen friends over to watch a movie with me. We make a night of it by making popcorn, putting out boxes of candy
Well Scott there's only one thing wrong with your experience, and that is that YOU have to do it all. Make the popcorn, buy the candy, buy the movie, run the movie, clean up any mess left by your guests afterwards. Not to mention blocking out the time to do all of it, plus there's no guarantee you won't get interrupted while your movie is playing.
I am truly sorry that the theatres in your area have left you so jaded about the moviegoing experience. I also think you're kind of unrealistic about what it takes to operate a theater and make a profit. But, I do fear that many big-city operations are hurting this industry a lot with crappy treatment of customers and film.
quote: Chris Slycord
Some people are visual and remember stuff in movies really well. I'm definitely NOT one of them. When I added Borne Supremacy to my netflix queue since I also wanted to later see Borne Ultimatum just get the whole trilogy done with, it took quite a while before I realized I'd seen the movie already.
See now I'm that way with TV shows, but my wife is the opposite. If we're watching something we've recorded, she'll know immediately if we've seen it before, while I might get to the first commercial break before I recognize it. Conversely with movies, if I'm flipping through the TV channels I can spot a favorite old movie in about 2 microseconds when I see it.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-24-2008 01:55 PM
quote:
The comment that so many movies are released directly to DVD in relative obscurity is exactly what I'm talking about. It's all about marketing!
It's also about budgeting. Most straight-to-DVD releases don't have anywhere near the marketing budget of a major movie release. It costs a hell of a lot of money to run an effective ad blitz across several forms of advertising media on a national level.
quote: Scott Jentsch
I deliberately didn't mention what price such a release would have, because I don't think that pricing it at the same price as traditional home video releases would be successful. It would cannibalize sales because there wouldn't be a double-dip situation.
As a rental item, a DVD or Blu-ray disc released day and date with the same movie in theaters would bring in a lot less revenue per viewer. One person could rent the disc, let his family watch it, loan it to the neighbors, coworkers, etc. -just like what already goes on with many rental discs.
Charging a premium, even a high premium would reinforce the sharing practice. Look at what goes on with a lot of high priced pay per view shows, such as a live UFC mixed martial arts event. Very few people will pay $30 or more to watch something like that alone or just with one other person. You get groups of people crowding into a house for that sort of thing. However, I don't think they would be willing to do that for a movie that can be seen in the exact same manner a few weeks later at a cheaper rental price. I think many of the people who prefer watching movies at home are also very content to wait longer for the movie to come out on DVD.
Some have proposed selling copies of a movie currently in theatrical release on DVD or Blu-ray in the theater lobby or in regular retail stores and charge a premium for it. The problem with that idea is when a movie arrives in theaters it is only just barely finished.
Movie production work flows would have to change very dramatically to fit in the production of a sell through video product to have ready at the time of the movie's theatrical release. The final cut of the movie would have to be locked in at least a month or two before opening day to allow time to test screen the movie, do other last minute edits and still have enough time to author a disc good enough that people will want to buy. I think that's simply asking way too much.
Right now the separate window between home video and theatrical release gives the movie studio and filmmakers time enough to go back and fix little things they didn't get right in the theatrical cut, make alternate changes for things that didn't work in the theatrical cut or fit in a lot of good stuff that couldn't be included in the theatrical cut. The production won't have any of those opportunities with a disc released day and date with the theatrical cut.
One could make a day and date disc a bare bones item with minimal menu structure and little to no extras. But anyone who buys that disc probably isn't going to buy another "deluxe" version of it 3-4 months later. Lots of people who pay to see a good movie in a movie theater will often buy the DVD or Blu-ray disc of that movie later on. That's one example of a "double dip" marketing model that works. It's pretty likely that a lot of the people who will be spending $20-$30 for Iron Man on Blu-ray this fall probably have already seen it in the movie theater.
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-25-2008 02:09 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
I am truly sorry that the theatres in your area have left you so jaded about the moviegoing experience. I also think you're kind of unrealistic about what it takes to operate a theater and make a profit. But, I do fear that many big-city operations are hurting this industry a lot with crappy treatment of customers and film.
I equate going to the movies around here to eating at McDonalds.
The food at McD's is edible, but no one would mistake the food for anything approaching "cuisine." The service is the bare minimum from employees making the bare minimum. The upside is that you know what you're going to get, as most McDonald's are consistent in their quality. I like to go to the specially-themed restaurants (solid gold, rock & roll, etc.) so at least there is some novelty to the experience.
Likewise, going to the movies around here is pretty much the same. The service is usually courteous, but not overly so. The popcorn often has plenty of hulls and leaves that aftertaste that takes hours to go away (kind of like McDonald's hamburgers, but not the same taste).
The sound presentation is usually good, so that's pretty consistent across the board. Picture quality is a little more iffy. I'm very sensitive to jump and weave, and it's bothersome to see the image do a dance, especially when text is displayed on the screen (like in The Incredible Hulk).
While Marcus has put some effort into their lobbies of late (see photos of the Majestic Cinema for examples), there isn't much special about the design of the exterior or interiors of most theaters. None have curtains on the screens, none play digital sound trailers, and now for some reason, the lights don't go down nearly as much as they used to, which causes the contrast to go way down. I get better black levels on my home system that's 4.5 years old (considered nearly ancient in home theater projectors).
I fully admit that I probably wouldn't stay in business very long if I owned a movie theater. I would want to do the things that I thought should be done to create a good show. I would then find out that there isn't money for such things, and I would get jaded and cynical. Then I would hate my job and my customers, and become what I previously railed against.
Or maybe my approach would strike a chord with people and it would be successful. It would require a ton of effort and up-front investment to find out, though. If only I had Mark Cuban's money! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote: Mike Blakesley
Well Scott there's only one thing wrong with your experience, and that is that YOU have to do it all. Make the popcorn, buy the candy, buy the movie, run the movie, clean up any mess left by your guests afterwards. Not to mention blocking out the time to do all of it, plus there's no guarantee you won't get interrupted while your movie is playing.
I don't mind doing it all because that's what it's all about when you entertain friends. The people I invite over are clean, they pick up after themselves, and we've never been interrupted by cell phone calls. My room is soundproof, so the only reason I'd hear the phone ring is if I brought the cordless with me.
And consider that I'm willing to do all that, and they don't pay me a dime! If each person paid me $8.50 for admission, $3.75 for a soda, and $3.50 for a popcorn, I'd be looking at some equipment upgrades!
The time it takes to watch a movie at home is nothing compared to the time it takes to go out and see a movie. If my wife and I want to go to a non-kids movie, we need to plan it in advance so we can arrange for the sitter. I may have to pick up the sitter, bring her back, we get the kids settled in and say goodbyes. Then we go to the theater and wait in the box office line, then wait in the concession line, then wait through the pre-show ads for the movie. After the movie, there's taking the sitter home.
For a two hour movie, you're talking about at least 4 hours of time and $40 - $50 from beginning to end, and that's if you don't go out for dinner and if you don't spring for the Marcus UltraScreen and/or VIP seating. Watching a movie at home is much more convenient and cheaper (after the equipment is purchased, of course). We've already purchased soda, popcorn, and snacks when we go grocery shopping, so there's no extra effort there.
I'm more than happy to put all that aside and let someone else do the work, though. But theaters have to earn that business, and at least around here, they don't in my mind. They are a necessary way to see a first-run movie if you don't want to wait for the Blu-ray to be released.
I find it interesting that there are very few threads on Film-Tech that talk about what theaters are doing to make going to the movies fun. I'd be curious to know what we're missing out on around here...
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-25-2008 03:07 PM
I guess I don't understand what theatres are supposed to do to make going to the movies more fun for you. Most of the hassle you describe comes from having to deal with a babysitter, which the theatre can't do anything about, and standing in lines. Theatres are helping in that regard by putting in online ticket sales -- which hardly anyone takes advantage of, from what I've read. Concession lines - well, you might consider going on a weeknight.
Your home scenario sounds great, but at the end of the day you're still staring at your same four walls. We have a nice TV setup at our house, but when it comes to planning an evening with friends, the first thought that comes to mind is "where can we go?" Not "Let's stay home."
The fact remains that a city theatre has to accommodate a lot of people and charge the prices it does in order to pay its bills, PLUS, contrary to what the home theatre crowd would like to believe, there are lots of people who want to go to the movies! So you're going to have crowds.
If you've never had a cellphone interruption while watching a movie with your friends, that would be a minor miracle. I don't know if I believe that one.
quote: Scott Jentsch
I fully admit that I probably wouldn't stay in business very long if I owned a movie theater. I would want to do the things that I thought should be done to create a good show. I would then find out that there isn't money for such things, and I would get jaded and cynical.
I don't know, I've been able to do most of the things here that are necessary for creating a good show -- new seats (2004), Dolby digital sound, we redecorated the lobby this year, and we bring in new movies on the break as much as possible, and the money has never been a problem because we're careful in other areas including how much money we take out of the business.
The big thing I wish we could do now are the stage curtains. (Someday, someday.) The one part of our building which I freely admit is really bad, is the restrooms, because they are tiny and there's no room to expand them. However, I don't think I'm jaded and cynical. Well, not yet!
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 06-26-2008 06:28 PM
Day-and-date is never going to happen, so it's a moot point. I wasn't talking about day-and-date. I guess I didn't know what you meant since you weren't clear and didn't specify when you wrote if you reduce the window "a great deal". I consider going from 150 days to 100 a great deal like Scott was talking about, but that drop hasn't affected theatres. What did you mean?
quote: Bobby Henderson
No it isn't proven. You're making wild assumptions -the wildest being that a limited group of people is carrying the entire movie exhibition and home video industries.
Yes it is proven. At the past two NATO conventions I have been at, president John Fithian talked specifically about this point. Maybe he's making wild assumptions too, but I get the impression he knows his stuff. I'll repeat. People who love movies, love movies everywhere, just like sports fans love their sport everywhere. They will go watch a game in a bar when they could easily watch the same game at home with total control of their environment and much cheaper food and beer and very possibly an equivalent or better video and audio setup. It goes back to that whole social outing thing.
Working in a theatre for 16 years, I can tell you our demographics are real, real easy to peg.
quote: Bobby Henderson
There is a significant portion of home theater owners who believe their home setup is superior to the movie theaters in their town.
Where are your statistics to support that wild assumption? Let's see some real numbers on that!
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