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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: The Myth that DVD makes all the money
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 06-28-2008 04:36 PM
I still think it is very funny how you demand "actual marketing evidence" for my claims while using extremely vague and general statements such as "lots of people", "many", "significant portion", "a lot of people", etc. and provide no real evidence for claims of your own. Visit any forumn regarding home theatre? Yeah, that select crowd won't be biased at all. I will, however, yield to your demands and provide the evidence you desire:
According to ScienceDaily (Dec. 7, 2007) the presence of other people enhances our movie experience. This study proves people emotionally prefer to go out to movies regardless of whether or not it is available to watch in your home (exactly what we're saying about the social aspect) but I'm just getting started.
www.mpaa.org has a "research/statistics" tab you can click on to find other statistics. You will find that throughout the explosion and improvement of flat screens and home audio, movie theatre attendance has increased from just under 1.1 billion tickets sold in 1992 to 1.4 billion in 2007 (US Entertainment Industry Marketing Statistics, page 4). Overall attendance has, in fact, increased every decade, although this study only focuses on more recent history (older data is available if you don't believe that either). Again, this is actual tickets sold, not dollars. Yes, obviously population has also increased, but if the home market was doing such damage to theatres, wouldn't you see overall attendance drop? The opposite is occurring. Here are some other stats I found interesting:
Almost 60% of all frequent moviegoers make over $50,000 per year and 77% make at least $35,000 (movie attendance study, page 10). This means the people that can afford all that high-end home theatre stuff go to the movies very often (and to clarify, when I said areas with lower household incomes spend more at theatre, I meant on food per person).
The most interest should be paid to page 10 of the US Entertainment Industry Marketing Statistics document. It states the following - One in seven U.S. moviegoers have invested to a great degree in content delivery and/or hardware for their home. Contrary to conventional wisdom, this segment of moviegoers goes to the movie theater more often than their lower tech counterparts. Those with 5 or more technologies attend 4 more movies per year than those with fewer technologies." It then goes on to provide the necessary stats.
So there you go - hard data supporting the claim that people who love movies, love movies everywhere (later in the report in discusses the increase in DVD sales and digital cable). I'm not making wild assumptions. People will beef up their home theatre system, then go out and watch it in the theatre. The shortened window hasn't affected anything and there are more screens now than 10 years ago. I believe someone owes John Fithian an apology...
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 06-30-2008 04:40 PM
quote: Mike Blakesley
If you've never had a cellphone interruption
I must hang out with a really strange group of friends, but they don't have cell phones attached to their heads at all times, and they rarely get called when we get together.
Maybe it's a demographics/age group thing, but we consider cell phones to be something that is used when it's important, not when you feel like chatting just because there's a commercial while you're watching a repeat of Sex and the City on TBS.
I have never had a movie in my home interrupted by a cell phone call. I would expect that any of my guests would have the decency to turn them off or at least put them on vibrate and only answer if it was from their babysitter or some emergency that couldn't wait.
quote: Mike Blakesley
I guess I don't understand what theatres are supposed to do to make going to the movies more fun for you. Most of the hassle you describe comes from having to deal with a babysitter, which the theatre can't do anything about, and standing in lines. Theatres are helping in that regard by putting in online ticket sales -- which hardly anyone takes advantage of, from what I've read. Concession lines - well, you might consider going on a weeknight.
This one's easy! I've said it before, and I don't mind repeating myself, because it's something that is near and dear to my heart.
To me, seeing a movie is all about the experience. I want to be entertained, not just by the movie, but by the entire experience. If all I wanted was the movie, then I could just wait for it to be released on home video. If I didn't care about the environment in which I watched movies, I'd be watching them on my cell phone, on my iPod, etc. I don't. Most often, when I'm home, I'm watching the movie in a darkened room and that's what I'm doing. I'm not reading the paper, not looking out the window, not talking on the phone. I have a large image with sound to match in an immersive environment that is geared to watching and enjoying movies.
So when I go to the movie theater, I want something even better than what I have at home.
When I get in the parking lot, I want to see neon and lots of it. When I walk in the door, I would like to be greeted by a friendly employee that actually seems happy to be there (or least can fake it well), and engages me instead of holding a side conversation with an usher that should be cleaning a theater instead of flirting with the ticket seller that is supposed to be paying attention to me.
I want concessions that are good quality. I can imagine that popcorn is very difficult to do well, and it's gotten to the point that I don't even expect it anymore. Movie theater popcorn sucks in general, so I've given up and pursued other options. I really like the soft pretzel sticks that one local theater serves, but the only sauce they provide is the nasty nacho cheese garbage that shouldn't be used to fill concrete much less be put on food. The service from the concession staff should also be cheerful and focused (I am amazed, and frustrated, at how often this is not the case).
Once I'm in the theater, the seats should be comfortable and the theater clean. The screen should be a decent size so that I can sit at a comfortable distance and height if I arrive in time to pick my seat. I usually see movies during the week, so there are usually less than a dozen people at any show I attend. I went to the iPic here in Milwaukee that had great seats, but the screen was too small for the size of the room and the height of the seating. Reserved seating and the fact that it was opening day for Indy 4 prevented me from being able to change seats, but seats closer were pretty low to the screen anyway.
I would love if the theater had curtains, so that the movie could begin with a fanfare that included the dimming of the lights and the pulling of the curtains.
I'd forgive the rolling stock and slide ads completely if only theaters were to do this. In the absence of real curtains, I'd be even give a passing grade to "digital curtains" that were part of the end of the pre-show or part of the ramp-up to the policy and movie trailers. I'm sure that there are talented video animators out there that would be able to supply animated curtains accompanied by some fanfare music that could be shown before the trailers kicked in. The lights that Mike uses sound like they accomplish much the same thing.
Above all the other things, the sound should be perfect and the so should the picture! No audio cut-outs, certainly no drop-outs at the reel changes (those are mostly a thing of the past now), and a wide dynamic range. I think most people complain about volume when the system isn't calibrated properly or there is a problem with bad equipment or distortion of some kind.
Probably the most annoying thing with going to the movie theater is the fact that most theaters can't figure out how to keep the image on the screen still! I know that there are some limitations imposed by the equipment being used, but I have to believe that competent operators and technicians are capable of putting on a presentation that isn't jumping around all over the place. I'm probably more sensitive to this than avid movie-goers, because I'm used to rock-steady images from my home system. This is probably the single biggest advantage I have seen for digital cinema.
If I were to run a movie theater, I would want to have someone up in the booth paying attention to the projectors. I once watched one guy manage 12 screens and he knew almost instinctively when something needed to be paid attention to. When I saw movies there, I'd often look back at the projection window and see him tweaking the focus as the movie began.
I would make sure that my staff smiled and focused on their customers. I would want to welcome my guests to the theater before each show by doing a pre-show talk. I would have my staff checking in on each screen at least once during every show just to make sure that the presentation was going well and that there weren't any behavior problems.
I would be roaming the lobby and engaging my customers. Maybe even meeting them at the exits and thanking them for coming. Hopefully, I would be having fun doing it.
But I would imagine that reality is much different from this fantasy. Working on paper-thin margins probably means hiring staff that didn't want to work at McDonalds, cutting corners whenever possible to reduce costs, and running around like a chicken with its head cut off because putting out fires all the time. And I certainly would not be having fun. But that's why I'm not in the business, and because the reality doesn't meet the fantasy, I stay home to watch movies more often than not because I can control the environment and make it enjoyable for myself and my guests.
This turned out much longer than it should have, but it's hard for me not to get going about it.
Maybe if you've skipped the large paragraphs, you'll see this last point.
Movie theaters should serve their customers like they give a damn about what their customers think, like they are guests and not cattle.
Make the experience fun and special.
From the moment I enter the parking lot to watching the movie to using the bathroom to walking through the door after it's all over, the experience should be something special and not just something that I had to do because I couldn't see the movie anywhere else because theaters have a release window that protects them from competition.
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-30-2008 07:24 PM
Scott - I guess it goes back to a comment I made a few pages ago - the theatres in your area must be awful, and I feel bad about that.
We do work on the paper-thin margin you describe, and often I do run around "putting out fires," but that's the business and I love it. (My wife tells me that she thinks I thrive on crisis.) The satisfaction comes from standing in the back of the crowd after the show has started, watching them enjoy the show and knowing we're doing the best job we can and giving them their money's worth.
Here, we are small, but we try to do all of the things you list. One thing we do that you did not list: We run the trailers at the proper volume and adjust for the feature.
One thing we're lacking is a "fanfare" like you describe. I have always thought it would be a great idea to have a ten minute film just showing a set of stage curtains. The soundtrack could be a medley of classic movie themes played at soft pre-show levels. At the end of the film, the music would swell and the curtains would open on a card that said, "Welcome to the movies! Please enjoy some previews of our coming attractions!" and fade to black.
Of course the market for such a thing would be limited due to pre-show advertising....but a shorter one-minute version could be made to show after the ads for those places doing advertising.
And people are constantly raving about our popcorn, so it can't be impossible to do!
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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 07-01-2008 01:24 PM
Perhaps I'm making it sound worse that it really is, but knowing what's possible, it's frustrating to pay first-rate prices for second-rate presentations.
I expect a certain lack of quality and apathy when it comes to the larger chains (kind of like McDonalds), but I find the lack of showmanship in some of the single-location theaters frustrating as well. I guess some operations are just set up to serve the masses with mediocre product and as long as they have paying customers, why do more?
It certainly seems that you are doing more than that. I like the idea of the one-minute curtain pull and fanfare after the pre-show and before the trailers. I'm sure your customers would get a kick out of it.
I have the CERT intro that I use once in a while in my home:
http://www.customintros.com/
People like it, and it shows off the sound system a little before the show. I also use some of the Dolby Digital, DTS, and THX trailers from time to time to mix things up. Such customized intro trailers are quite popular in the home theater hobby, and it's just yet another example of how much more fun people are making watching movies at home than most theaters make it to watch there.
My comments here are by no means intended as an insult to those here that actually do give a damn about their customers. It's the ones that don't give a damn (whether they are reading here or not) that I don't care for. It's not called "show business" for nothing!
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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-05-2008 02:02 PM
Bobby -
Until you clarify what you mean by "a great deal more people", "significant portion", "lots of people", etc., I cannot continue with this discussion. Your "opinions" are so vague, I don't know what you are talking about and when I try and guess, I get it wrong. You then put words in my mouth which is poor form, even for you. I have given proof that the amount of time the DVD release window has shrunk thus far has not affected ticket sales. I have provided those stats and that evidence. I don't know what else you want. Please be very clear.
On page 1, you said if you reduce the window a great deal more people will wait. What does that mean? Reduce it how much? How many people? My guess is you don't have any clue. Your general wording and lack of clarity is very confusing.
While you're at it, please explain the "simple math" you referred to on page 1, because that is not an opinion, that is a statement of fact which I do not believe you can support with any data. Show me the "very simple" math so I may understand to what you are referring.
Until then, this discussion is over for me. Scott, I wish every theatre was exactly as you described. That does sound ideal.
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Geoff Jones
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 579
From: Broomfield, CO, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-22-2008 11:04 PM
I recently saw an IMAX film for the first time in a long time (Beavers, @ www.dmns.org), and I was really impressed by the pre-show slides. They bragged about the equipment and the format.
That got me wondering - why don't regular theatres do that? Why aren't there slides bragging about how much better their presentation vs the home?
- Here's how big this movie will be on DVD. (Pic of tiny tv at bottom of screen.)
- Now showing: 35mm film. More resolution, better color, and greater contrast than BluRay DVD!
- Tonight's feature will be presented in 5 gazillion watts of surround sound from 38 speakers (or whatever).
- Etc.
Hell, why don't good theatres brag about how great they are compared to the crappy theatre down the street?
- Our screen adjusts to fit the shape of the film. Our competitors simply chop off whatever doesn't fit. Want to see the whole film? See it here. (with pic)
- Sick of people interrupting your movie? Our ushers monitor the auditorium and toss out talkers!
- You are looking at a sixty foot wide Screen. Our competitors' largest screen is less than forty. Welcome to the big leagues.
- Etc.
It wouldn't cost much to make slides like that, or even a little video sequence. It seems to me, if you've gotta run a pre-show sequence, at least a portion of it should talk up the theater. It would be better than repeatedly asking trivia questions like "Who played Indiana Jones?"
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-23-2008 01:19 AM
quote: Geoff Jones
Here's how big this movie will be on DVD. (Pic of tiny tv at bottom of screen.)
Some time ago I came up with what I thought was a great idea for a promotional "slug" that would capitalize on that same idea.
The action would be two or three guys hauling TV set after TV set into the picture, and stacking them up making a wall. Some of the TVs would be little portables, and some big console types. (And all of the action going real fast, like about double speed, with appropriate music.) When the "wall" gets about six or seven TVs high, and the guys are having trouble keeping the stack steady, a voice-over would say "You would need over 275 TV sets to make a picture as big as the one you get right here in the Roxy Theatre." About this time, the wall of TVs begins to teeter and finally crashes to the floor, leaving the guys scratching their heads. Voice over: "But why go to all that trouble? We offer you the big bright picture...not to mention Dolby digital sound and fresh popcorn. So sit back and relax, and let us do the work. Enjoy the show!"
Tim Reed, I'm sure you could flesh out this idea and do something great with it. ![[beer]](graemlins/beer.gif)
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