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Author Topic: Cars suck Galen Murphy-Fahlgren Master Film Handler Posts: 405 From: Canton, MI, USA Registered: Oct 2007 posted 09-16-2008 02:50 PM                     Charles and Monte have it just about dead on. Between the superior durability of a manual trans and the superior efficiency of the system, it is a done deal for me. Manual systems also weigh less, both in total weight and rotating mass. Control is a huge part of it for me too, as is tactile response. A manual driver is much more likely to be able to "feel out" their car, and I can head off problems with a variety of systems through early detection. Example: since liquid cooling systems are often operated via belt driven pump, the system generally functions at a proportionally lesser degree to heat production at low engine speed. Hence, if I suspect a cooling problem, I can find it before it would plague typical vehicle operation just by keeping my engine speed extremely low, down around 1200rpm. While I never drive at these engine speeds in normal circumstances, the system is designed to accommodate this set of factors, but you may notice an increase over normal operating temperatures if your system is in the early stages of failure, like if you have radiator damage or blockage, the pump isn't providing enough pressure at low engine speeds to overcome this failure. Conversely, I am aware of a problem with the system, I can get the coolant flowing faster by maintaining a higher engine speed, hence pump speed. All these points aside, I was raised driving manual cars since I was 13 and am less comfortable driving automatic. My father hasn't had an automatic since the '70s, and my mother only drives autos because she needs a car with seven usable seats. Since my dad was always the one who had the most cars (and fastest), I usually drove what he wasn't using. My mother's only spare car was her full sized van, and being in high school and driving a full size half ton van with a weak 302ci V8 isn't as cool as a turbo 5cyl Audi.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-16-2008 07:47 PM                     quote: Galen Murphy-Fahlgren the system generally functions at a proportionally lesser degree to heat production at low engine speed. ...this may work if you didn't have a T-stat in the circuit in an old 1962 CHEV 292cid "Stovebolt Straight 6",but all motors needs the T-stat to help the motor be at its most temperature range for proper operation. Plus with new motors, all of them are computer monitored. If the coolant not at a correct temp reading, the temp sensor will tell the ECU that the motor isn't hot enough for the correct range and the ECU to tell the injectors to shove in more fuel to get the motor at the programmed temperature operating range. Thus, you take out the T-stat, or the T-stat is stuck open, your fuel ecomony will go to pot in a quick due to the system is running super rich as all get out with the injectors shoving in tons more fuel than necessary. All the sensors under the hood have to be left alone to conform to a 'closed loop' connection with the ECU. If any sensor fails or is unplugged, this is called 'an open loop" condition and the ECU then has to make the best judgement to get things back "in the loop of things." Thus, it doesn't really matter if one drives slow or fast, the temp reading will always be the same. Also, if one does prev maintenance on their vehicles, cooling issues and failures are completely eliminated with regular, two year, system flushes. Plus, you should know that the WP pulley is usually smaller than the crank pulley. thus it's always spinning over 1k RPM's when the motor is on idle at 750 rpm. And a WP is working quite well at that shaft speed. I have a good one to ask the youngers since we got on the topic of manual transmissions: Any of yous know what the term "three on the tree" is related to? -Monte  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 09-16-2008 09:58 PM                        Hmm, heard it before, and may have been told it before, but I have a memory comprable to a 90yr old crack addic with both alheimers and dementia. I'd forget my head if it wasn't attached. But I'm guessing it has to do with the shift pattern looking like a tree, and 3 gears? Or maybe the tree is some alternate term for the steering column, and so 3 gears on the column. I know four on the floor means a floor mounted shifter with 4 gears.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 09-17-2008 12:33 AM                     Trucks sick too. My 02 Ranger (nicknamed the Rump Ranger) (heck, my 2000 YZ250 dirt bike is named Double Nuts) decided that this past week, when I had NO money, was the perfect time to have the heater control valve explode and dump all the coolant on La Brea Ave. in about 25 seconds. Luckily, I had just renewed my insurance with emergency towing. I got the truck back to my palatial estate, rode my mountain bike to the parts store and got a replacement valve. Got it back together in an hour or so. At least Double Nuts doesn't give me as many problems, though it still has an attitude problem.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 09-17-2008 03:11 AM                     My parents 1962 Chevy 2 Nova and 1970 AMC Hornet both had "3 in the tree". Both also had small block V-6s. The Chevy was built like a tank. The Hornet, not so much. Oh...one of my coworkers thought if he drove his car fast over a flooded section of road (Lubbock had it's record one-day rainfall last Thursday) his car would skim over the water. It didn't work. He got water in his engine.  |  IP: Logged Anslem Rayburn Master Film Handler Posts: 476 From: Yuma, AZ, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 09-17-2008 03:24 AM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer Any of yous know what the term "three on the tree" is related to? Yep, 3 speed manual transmission with the shifter on the steering column. I had a friend with a Ford pickup truck with this configuration.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-17-2008 03:58 AM                     quote: James Westbrook My parents 1962 Chevy 2 Nova and 1970 AMC Hornet both had "3 in the tree". Both also had small block V-6s Interesting - didn't know that '70 Hornets had V6's - thought they had either the 196cid (from Rambler days), or the 232cid straight 6. Then in 1972 they grew up to get either the 258 or the 304cidV8 like my '72 Gremlin X had in it with a 3.91 rear end with a 3sp on the floor. But, I bet that Hornet received a odd firing Buick "Fireball" V6 that the AMC Jeep "CJ" counterparts were using..and so did the Chev II's, which were eventually christened as the "Nova" Remember when Buick took that motor and made a 225cid all-aluminum V-6? One of the rarist motors to find, and when it was new, that entire motor had that shine of freshly molded aluminum sitting under the hood driving a prop shaft all the way back to the tranny that was directly connected to the differential in a Starfire.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 09-17-2008 01:54 PM                     I don't recall the Buick reconfigurating the V-6. I'll be honest: I was a kid when we had those 2 cars. I recall someone showing me how to count spark plug wires to determine the number of cylinders the engine had and I recall, in the Hornet, as 3 on one side and 3 on the other. It could have been a straight 6 as I have slept several thousand days since then (1974). The Hornet was traded in for a 73 Chevy Nova, 2 door, with a 307 V8. I drove this car through High School. I recall there had been some controversy where Buicks got Oldsmobile engines or vise-versa...in the 70s or 80s. I didn't understand the controversy then and still don't.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 09-17-2008 06:56 PM                     Oh, those Oldsmobile Rocket V8's. I sure do miss them.  |  IP: Logged Todd McCracken Master Film Handler Posts: 263 From: Northridge, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 09-17-2008 07:30 PM                    I had a 73 hornet with the most ultimate set of 8-tracks To my knowlege they were all straight 6's. Mine certianly was, though if memorey serves it was huge. Loved the desert setting on the AC, you could make ice with that thing.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 09-17-2008 09:30 PM                        Grr. I wish I had an AC like that. I'd be one cool dude.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-17-2008 09:38 PM                     AMC used a lot of Chrysler components (using TorqueFlight auto trannies and AC systems) in their 70's vehicles. Yet, the ignition system for the v8's was GM DELCO ignition.  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 09-17-2008 09:41 PM                     quote: Robert E. Allen I don't understand the popularity of stick shifts with young drivers unless they like to imagine they're in the Indy 500 or want to make their pipes bang louder. My first car was a 1976 Ford Maverick with the 302 V8 (most had the in-line 6) and an automatic. Its slippy transmission for which Ford was known for like 20 years was the reason I became a fan of manuals.  |  IP: Logged Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 09-17-2008 11:27 PM                     62 Chevy II would have been a 194CI inline 6 and AMC used the 225 Buick but only in the Jeeps so it should of been an inline 6. Marc  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-17-2008 11:46 PM                     I remember when my dad bought my mom a (used) 1970 Ford Maverick in 1971. It had a "three on the tree" with a small 170cid six and has 6.50x13 tires on it. (Wanted my dad to get the "Maverick Grabber"- which had bucket seats, 3 on the floor and a 250cid/6 motor, but he didn't like the sporty look of the Grabber.."too much of a 'kid machine', he said..") Good ol' bench seat, no power options and we went to Sacramento from E. Idaho - me in my 1963 Rambler 440H 3spd w/overdrive (twin stick) hauling my cousin, his dad and me, and my mom hauling his wife and the two daughters. My Rambler went that trip with no problems while the Maverick blew an EXH valve in the No.5 jug. ...talk about driving across that NEVADA desert in the summer..and who heard of AC units in cars them days.... -Monte  |  IP: Logged

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