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This topic comprises 8 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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Topic: Circuit City Closing 155 Stores
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-14-2008 10:40 PM
The issue of just who is providing lifetime warranties on Toyota vehicles doesn't take away from the fact Toyota is hurting. It certainly is not doing well in the North American market.
On November 6, Toyota cut its earnings forecast for the full year to less than 1/3 of what it earned in the previous year. Linky
quote: Associated Press
TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- Toyota slashed its earnings forecast for the full year Thursday to less than a third of what it was the previous year, the latest sign that the global slowdown and strong yen are taking a toll on Japan's mighty automakers.
Toyota Motor Corp., which has been riding high on the success of its Prius hybrid and Camry sedan, also said that its July-September quarter net profit plunged 69 percent to 139.8 billion yen ($1.4 billion).
A contraction in the vital U.S. auto market, the credit crunch and recent jump in the yen from about 118 yen to a dollar a year ago to 100 yen levels have dealt a serious blow to Japan's biggest automaker.
"We are in a difficult economic climate facing a variety of risks and uncertainties, including higher energy and raw material prices," the company said in a statement.
Toyota company cut its profit forecast for the year ending March 2009 to 550 billion yen ($5.5 billion), or about half of its earlier projection of 1.25 trillion yen ($12.6 billion), and about a third of the previous year's profit of 1.72 trillion yen.
Quarterly sales dropped 8 percent to 5.98 trillion yen ($60 billion) from 6.49 trillion yen.
Even before the latest lower revisions, Toyota had been headed for its first year-on-year profit in seven years. There are no comparable numbers before Toyota's accounting change seven years ago.
Toyota, which also makes the Lexus luxury models, revised its sales forecast for the year through March 2009 to 23 trillion yen ($232 billion). That's down 12.5 percent from 26.3 trillion yen the previous year. Toyota had earlier expected 25 trillion yen ($253 billion) in sales for the fiscal year.
Although Toyota marked growth in Asia, South America and Africa, that wasn't enough to overcome the declines in Japan, North America and Europe. The nosedive was especially serious in North America, where its sales fell nearly 20 percent for the first six months of the fiscal year.
Toyota said it was wary of the global slowdown and the gyrations in currencies and stock markets. It also said competition in compact cars and other lower priced models is growing.
For the quarter ended September 30, Toyota produced 1.95 million vehicles worldwide, down 2.6 percent from 2.00 million vehicles the same period a year ago.
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Chris Slycord
Film God
Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 11-15-2008 12:00 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
Why would the car dealerships be offering lifetime warranties on cars completely on their own without any backing from Toyota itself? They're going to be cutting their throats on such a deal -especially if the buyer can get both the 0% financing deal (fat chance) and the lifetime warranty deal rolled up into a car purchase.
Why would they do it? To compete with the other dealers around town. If a bunch of dealers around your town offer lifetime warranties on the powertrain and you don't, you'll lose at least some sales. And to be fair, not all of these places would be offering them for free. Further, just because the dealer isn't being backed by the manufacturer doesn't mean they're getting screwed either. I'm pretty sure that the dealers get their parts pretty cheap from the manufacturer. Also, even though this'll change a bit, there are enough people that buy new cars every few years that giving a "lifetime" warranty is fine since most likely the powertrain won't die in the time that they keep the car (and the lifetime warranty only applies to the original owner in most cases).
quote: Bobby Henderson
If it's just an independent thing, why are so many Toyota dealerships doing it?
That's like saying "Unless there's collusion between banks, why are so many different banking chains offering ATMs?" Everyone has ATMs because it's expected. And so many Toyota dealers offer something because they think it's a good business decision.
quote: Bobby Henderson
The thing I find disturbing is the tone (not just what I'm hearing here in this thread, but overall elsewhere) that average people caught up in this economic mess deserve to lose their jobs. The whole union thing makes it so much easier. Who cares about the real bad guys in this situation? We can't hate those Wall Street folks. They go to work wearing better looking clothes.
Oh come on! No one here (despite your ![[bs]](graemlins/bs.gif) claim) is saying "people deserve to lose their jobs." And if you actually are referring to stuff I said, perhaps you missed the part where I said that maybe it would be better if these other, better-performing, companies took over the plants (and thereby keeping people employed)?
And I, in fact, do care about the real bad guys of the situation. Namely, the idiots running the big three.
edit: And on a quick google search of "lifetime powertrain warranty toyota" the 2nd entry was for a dealer in the Pittsburgh area claiming to be the only Toyota dealer in Western Pennsylvania offering the lifetime warranties. If Toyota was itself doing the warranty then one would expect all the dealers in that area to offer it.
I'm done discussing this. I truly wish everyone involved in this the best though don't want to be part of a bailout.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 11-15-2008 12:50 AM
quote:
Why would they do it? To compete with the other dealers around town. If a bunch of dealers around your town offer lifetime warranties on the power-train and you don't, you'll lose at least some sales.
When you ultimately have to lose a lot of money on the deal the deal up front isn't worth it.
I can just see some guy rolling into the service dept. of Fiesta Toyota in 2023 with his 2009 beater Corolla that's seen over 100,000 miles worth of bumpy Oklahoma gravel covered section line roads wanting another free suspension and transmission rebuild. The dealer doesn't see enough profit in the sale of a car or pickup truck to cover that kind of thing -not unless someone else is subsidizing it somehow.
At my own place of work, when some clown blows in saying a competitor is pricing lighted signs way below what we charge I tell him, "buy your sign from that guy! Be my guest!" Buy that ugly piece of shit. I'd rather see a competitor cut his own throat with price cutting than me follow his lead to the bottom. I've seen a lot of "fast sign" shops come and go over the last 15 years.
quote:
Oh come on! No one here (despite your [bs] claim) is saying "people deserve to lose their jobs." And if you actually are referring to stuff I said, perhaps you missed the part where I said that maybe it would be better if these other, better-performing, companies took over the plants (and thereby keeping people employed)?
Honda, Toyota, BMW and any other foreign auto manufacturer isn't going to be taking over plants and production lines of down-on-their-luck American car companies.
None of the production line equipment will work with their product lines. At best, they would only get some use out of the freaking building. Might as well turn it into a Mega Wal-Mart.
Car companies outside of America are not in great shape. They're already producing too many cars for the lack of demand. If anything, they may be shutting down some of their non-union American plants. Because those workers are too overpaid too -and the stereotype says anything any American does is crap. They can get the work done cheaper in China.
And yeah, the whole GM can die off and who cares thing and union people are overpaid does kind of translate into those folks deserve to lose their jobs. The trouble is a lot of other non-union people fall on their swords in that situation too.
quote: Chris Slycord
And I, in fact, do care about the real bad guys of the situation. Namely, the idiots running the big three.
News flash: car companies didn't have a damned thing to do with the housing pyramid scheme that has credit lines locked in this screwed up mess. That's Wall Street and those silver spoon bastards wanting bailouts hundreds of times the size the car companies are asking. They're also the same bastards that ran up the commodities markets (like oil) to put car companies, airline companies, shipping companies and anyone else sensitive to fuel costs into the shitter.
quote: Chris Slycord
And on a quick google search of "lifetime powertrain warranty toyota" the 2nd entry was for a dealer in the Pittsburgh area claiming to be the only Toyota dealer in Western Pennsylvania offering the lifetime warranties.
Little piss-ant Lawton's Toyota dealership is offering it too. What does that mean? Dealerships in the Penn state are cheap? The problem is a multitude of Toyota dealerships are offering this deal. That cannot be entirely by coincidence. We're talking lottery odds here for lots of them yet not all doing this all at once.
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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 11-15-2008 03:06 AM
There is something that must be considered:
What is the stipulation of that lifetime warranty? The dealer always has the odds in their favor. Wait longer than 3000 miles for your oil change - must be provided by the dealer at $40 or higher - warranty void. "My transmission just went out." "Did you bring the vehicle in every 30,000 miles for the fluid and filter change?" "No." "You are S-O-L."
A dealer in the town of Slaton has been offering Tires For Life. the stipulation is that the dealer must also perform all the maintenance and tire rotations and if one is missed - No Free Tires For Life. They were charging about $45 for an oil change. A locally owned oil change franchise does that for $32.
There must be a catch with that Lifetime Warranty. The dealers know what they are doing. They are not going to intentionally cut themselves short.
I also do not want GM or Ford or Chrysler to fail. The repercussions would be felt worldwide.
With the exception of the econo-boxes, most American cars are solidly built. A well-maintained vehicle can now last 200,000 miles. 40 years ago, a car was considered "worn out" at 70,000 miles.
Most people will not keep a car for 200,000 miles.
They will trade it in about...4 or 5 years? 70,000, 80,000 miles on the odometer...
"Lifetime" in car dealer terms is ambiguous at best.
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Chris Slycord
Film God
Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 11-15-2008 09:10 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
I can just see some guy rolling into the service dept. of Fiesta Toyota in 2023 with his 2009 beater Corolla that's seen over 100,000 miles worth of bumpy Oklahoma gravel covered section line roads wanting another free suspension and transmission rebuild. The dealer doesn't see enough profit in the sale of a car or pickup truck to cover that kind of thing -not unless someone else is subsidizing it somehow.
Except that your example is something of an extreme rarity. Hardly anyone does that. By the time that person is making them spend a lot, they don't care because they've already made more than their money's worth off the other people.
Consider this:
I offer lifetime warranties on the drivetrain. I've priced it as being equivalent to the amount one would expect to pay out in drivetrain repairs/replacements in the span of 12 years. Since most people replace their car much earlier than that, I make a profit on the transaction for almost everyone and the few people I don't are offset so that I still make a profit.
quote: Bobby Henderson
None of the production line equipment will work with their product lines.
I was under the impression that they could retrofit the equipment to work with their stuff.
quote: Bobby Henderson
And yeah, the whole GM can die off and who cares thing and union people are overpaid does kind of translate into those folks deserve to lose their jobs. The trouble is a lot of other non-union people fall on their swords in that situation too.
Bullshit. I never said that. FFS, I suggested (even just now) that the foreign companies take over to keep the people employed (though apparently I might have been suggesting the impossible). I brought up how they are overpaid because it explains part of the problem and explained that I think it is in the company/union's best interest to work together to get a more reasonable wage. Also, it doesn't really matter that the union already did what I'm suggesting (meaning that before the guy's were paid even more in comparison to the rest of the market).
quote: Bobby Henderson
News flash: car companies didn't have a damned thing to do with the housing pyramid scheme that has credit lines locked in this screwed up mess. That's Wall Street and those silver spoon bastards wanting bailouts hundreds of times the size the car companies are asking. They're also the same bastards that ran up the commodities markets (like oil) to put car companies, airline companies, shipping companies and anyone else sensitive to fuel costs into the shitter.
There's more to it than just that. That's what I've been saying the whole time. The problem IS NOT just due to the housing and financing debacle (though that's part of it).
And as I read in an editorial, I think if we do offer a bailout, we have to "Attach strings to force the companies to be more forward thinking, instead of following the patterns that have left them playing catch-up." As that guy was saying we "should invest enough in Detroit to prevent bankruptcies, but in exchange it needs a guarantee that GM, Chrysler and Ford will build cleaner, more fuel efficient cars and learn how to hedge bets and anticipate trends" which seems pretty reasonable rather than just giving them money.
edit:
And if these companies do go under, there very well could be a class-action lawsuit against the UAW claiming negligence and breach of contract. Why? Because in the past, instead of giving raises the union negotiated for increasing benefits. And GM never increased their revenues to compensate for the paying out of these benefits and the union people as well never looked at the numbers and said "GM can't pay this."
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Chris Slycord
Film God
Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 11-15-2008 10:26 AM
But the problem is that they need more than just improvement on their cars. They need new designs and more cars that get good gas mileage and/or hybrids. And GM's biggest foray into that, the Volt, is going to cost about $5,000 more than they had hoped (sending it to $35k). The reason is that only now did they realize that wiper blades and car stereos normally run off the alternator that the car won't have and they don't have enough time to make the 2010 deadline for the car and make a big redesign, so they're including a kluge they referred to as "redundant systems" which add that $5k to the price. Though apparently, the later models will have this fixed/redesigned (and hopefully be at the lower price).
Though I think it's a bit of "too little; too late."
edit:
And just to be clear, what I would like is:
1) There to be no bailout
2) The regular workers stay employed
And if it is the case that 2 can only happen when 1 isn't the case, then that's a compromise I'm willing to make. I'd just prefer what I refer to above.
[ 11-15-2008, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris Slycord ]
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