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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Topic: Has anyone upgraded to Snow Leopard?
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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 09-01-2009 05:39 PM
Galen, you cannot possibly be serious with that statement. There is nothing "low end" Final Cut Pro, it has evert bit the professional industry acceptance that Avid does, with a long list of feature film and television credits behind it, in fact, I would venture to say that its current share of film/broadcast non-linear market has to be around 50%, from what I've observed.
Getting back OT, I have had Snow Leopard on my 2.16ghz iMac Intel Duo Core 2 since Saturday. The only issues I have observed is that Office for Mac 2004 seems very slightly slower to open than before, it may be running under Rosetta. Also, the ColorSync utility seems to have lost some of it's monitor profiles, including manual calibration. I'll have to resolve this somehow.
A frequently updated wiki of known issues with software: www.snowleopard.wikidot.com
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-01-2009 05:50 PM
Galen is not in a position to define video editing standards, so ignore his comments. I have seen Final Cut Pro listed at the end of movie credits sometimes (35mm film playing in a real-to-life movie theater). Every major editing house I have ever seen jobs posted for require knowledge of Final Cut Studio. It is not the ONLY choice, but it quickly is becoming the defacto choice. As for offices, I don't care what kind of computer they use. Offices are boring so of course they will want crap like Microsoft Office and Powerpoint. Sometimes whatever proprietary software they use is developed only for Windows, just like Pennywise's CA-LINK automation software.
quote: Andy Bajew
Unfortunately you failed to notice the "general understanding" part of my statement, implying it doesn't relate to every person who owns a PC. Also, assuming something is applied-how does the saying go-makes an ass out of you and me.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your response, but I did not miss the part you claim I did. I have a general understanding of computers. That does NOT mean I can make my PC last longer than any Mac. You spoke in generalities. The way you phrased it reads "any Mac". If you are trying to say that not every Mac lasts longer than every PC, fine. Just clarify your comments in the future before you press "submit".
quote: Andy Bajew
Doesn't every Mac/PC commercial imply this?
Perhaps, but those are advertisements. Ads will also tell you that McDonald's tastes all super-wonderful or that Bounce will soften your clothes the best. What do you expect? Now provide me a link where anyone said that Macs have no issues.
Anyway, Snow Leopard is starting to grow on me. The biggest problem seems to be that it cannot play back WMA and WMV files. I could via the Flip-4-Mac plug-in in 10.4, and I do not want to buy that plug-in again just so Quicktime X can do it.
EDIT: Nevermind, WMVs and WMA's play fine. I was trying to use QT 7 instead of X. It also looks like QT 7 will do it. However when I double-click on them I get a message that says "Quicktime 7 needs to be installed to play that, asshat!" So I'll have to re-associate the file types so that double-clicking is possible.
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Galen Murphy-Fahlgren
Master Film Handler
Posts: 405
From: Canton, MI, USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 09-01-2009 07:14 PM
Joe, I don't mean to offend, and I did qualify my last statement in that regards. Most of my knowledge on the subject is dated by several years from my high school digital media class, which did in fact involve a decent amount of video editing. We used Final Cut Pro on G5 PowerMacs, and I generally liked it. However, at the time, people I spoke to in the industry said just what I have, that most high end stuff was NOT done on computers running Macintosh, and quick Googling I have done subsequently has never indicated a growing share in that market by Apple. This information may be dated, but it is what I was told by credible sources as recently as 2006.
I do think that you minimize the importance of productivity software. One would be decidedly hard pressed to complete college without using it, and many important professions rely on useful interpretation of data, so just because you think it is boring doesn't mean it isn't a valid standpoint from which to critique a computing system.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-01-2009 10:33 PM
quote: Mike Heenan
The show Scrubs was edited at one time on 2 17" MBP's with FCP, and I believe a NIN concert (later released to DVD and Blu Ray) was done on one as well.
The NIN DVD, And All that Could Have Been: Nine Inch Nails Live was shot with MiniDV cameras, edited and authored using an entirely Mac-based workflow, which included Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro.
The more recent NIN Blu-ray Disc release, Beside You In Time was NOT produced in the same manner. That video was shot mostly using full sized studio oriented HDTV cameras. I know this because I was at the Oklahoma City concert and saw the gear they were using to record it. The only "prosumer" gear used was the HDV camera mounted next to the drummer. That disc was authored on a Windows based system. And that's because there is no professional level Blu-ray authoring software available for the Mac platform.
Sonic Scenarist is Windows-only. Sony Blu-print and Blu-code are both Windows only. There's a couple of other off the wall Blu-ray authoring solutions available, but they too are Windows only. To do enterprise level Blu-ray authoring you need a Gawd-awful, icky, stinky Windows-based PC to get the work done. It isn't happening on a Mac. Thank you, Steve Jobs for that. Good luck with that fucking fake HD movies on iTunes thing, dickhead.
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-01-2009 11:39 PM
Actually it is happening on the Mac since they can just boot up in Windows to get the job done. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) I like the flexibility of two OSes. I would never restrain myself to just one, especially as an artist.
Apple definitely dropped the ball on Blu-ray, but that is primarily because Steve Jobs wants everything to be digital content, no physical discs ever. He doesn't understand that clients want Blu-ray. He thinks that everything should be stored on a server. To that way of thinking I say "F-you, Steve Jobs!".
Still, Adobe Encore exists on the Mac and Final Cut 7 burns Blu-rays right from the timeline. It'll even burn them to a DVD if you don't have a BD burner. You'll have to step up to Sonic Scenarist and crap like that if you need the shitty java-based funky menu nonsense, but if you just need the video content, chapters and menus, then those programs won't be beneficial over what Encore and Final Cut Pro offer. To be honest, I don't find that fancy menus make Blu-ray any better. There isn't any thing else I have witnessed while watching Blu-rays that Encore or Final Cut could not do. Maybe seamless branching. But just because it doesn't have pop-up menus and bullshit like that doesn't mean that it is amateur or somehow not "enterprise level".
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-02-2009 12:29 AM
The thing that gets on my nerves is Blu-ray could be at least a little farther along in development maturity if it weren't for Steve Jobs trying to misdirect anything HD-related and movie related to iTunes, iPods and iPhones. Internet downloading? In real time? Yeah. See ya in 10 years!
If Apple had been more involved with Blu-ray as the company should have been as a member of the BDA HD video editing applications on both PC and Mac platforms would be farther along in advancement due to the increased competition. And we may not have had the bullshit HD-DVD versus Blu-ray drama that dominated 2006-2008. But, no. Stuff like iTunes is more important. Nevermind what it does to compromise the professional level sector of Apple's business and open opportunities to its rivals.
Certain Apple fans can laugh at Adobe only through their ignorance. Adobe did a hell of a lot more to make Apple the popular platform for computer graphics than Apple ever did. Adobe invented Postscript. Not Apple. Adobe is the company that developed Photoshop, Illustrator, PDF, InDesign, etc. Apple didn't come up with any of those things, but Apple strangely gets all the credit for it.
One of my friends recently gave me this pitch of how we was so much more productive by doing his graphics work on a Mac. When pressed for specifics of what the Mac version of Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc. could do over the Windows version he couldn't come up with anything. At best there was just vague claims of "my computer crashes less."
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Lately both Apple and Microsoft have been looking to carve their way into Adobe's market. Silverlight? How the hell is that supposed to be a replacement for PDF or Flash? Aperture? How is that going to be a Photoshop-killer when Adobe's own Lightroom runs better and under far less system resources?
If Adobe is left alone long enough it will best what Final Cut Pro is able to do with high definition video editing, especially with regard to Blu-ray authoring. Adobe is not alone in this either. Avid is a pretty formidable company in its own right. I'm wondering what Autodesk is waiting on. That company has a big pool of high end technologies it can tap for jumping into the mainstream market.
Apple needs to get its shit together and start concentrating on its core market of creative professional computers users instead of listening to all the stock analysts advice. Those suits think Apple just needs to spend all of its attention on developing little electronic toys to go into the plastic purses of 16 year old girls. Teeny boppers aren't what built up the Apple brand. The professional level users did. They gave the Apple logo its prestige. I think the company is trying its hardest to lose that prestige by hawking iTunes and iPhones.
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-02-2009 04:04 AM
Bobby, did someone at Apple piss on your Cheerios? You always seem to have a chip on your shoulder waiting for someone to say "Mac is better than PC". I don't think that you are necessarily biased (except towards Adobe), but by god you definitely want to argue about it.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Adobe is the company that developed Photoshop, Illustrator, PDF, InDesign, etc. Apple didn't come up with any of those things, but Apple strangely gets all the credit for it.
This is the first that I've ever heard of an idea that Apple gets all the credit for it. You must be hanging around with some strange peeps. The only thing that is even close to similar is that most of those apps began life on the Mac platform. That's it.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Lately both Apple and Microsoft have been looking to carve their way into Adobe's market.
Who gives a rat's testicle? Professionals will continue to use the tools that they feel comfortable with and if anything better comes along, then it will deservedly win. It sounds like you think that Adobe should never have challengers and should never have competition.
quote: Bobby Henderson
If Adobe is left alone long enough it will best what Final Cut Pro is able to do with high definition video editing, especially with regard to Blu-ray authoring.
Well, they've had plenty chances to try. Premiere Pro is still quite lacking in comparison, though a huge step up from Premiere Amateur of ages past. I don't see anything in Premiere that would make me want to use it instead of the much more-widely supported Final Cut Pro. You seem convinced that they can best ANYONE no matter what. They are Adobe, after all. They are gods. I don't know why they don't build cars, if left alone long enough they could sure kick the hell out of Ford, Honda, Toyota and whoever else. Shit, Adobe should run for President of the United States!
quote: Bobby Henderson
Apple needs to get its shit together and start concentrating on its core market of creative professional computers users instead of listening to all the stock analysts advice.
They would if there was a better return involved for them. But as far as what you say goes, I think they are doing OK except for the lack of including Blu-ray burners in their computers and changing DVD Studio Pro into a full-fledged BD/DVD authoring program. Believe it or not, most people still only want DVDs.
quote: Bobby Henderson
Teeny boppers aren't what built up the Apple brand. The professional level users did.
Apple, like every other company in the world, will do what it can to make more money. They sell shitloads of iPods and iPhones, etc. Can you give me a reason on why those things should be shoved into the back seat (aside from personal dislike of the gadgets)? But going by your argument, Adobe should concentrate on mac users. After all, it was the Mac that originally gave Photoshop, etc its "prestige".
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-02-2009 12:36 PM
quote: Joe Redifer
Bobby, did someone at Apple piss on your Cheerios? You always seem to have a chip on your shoulder waiting for someone to say "Mac is better than PC". I don't think that you are necessarily biased (except towards Adobe), but by god you definitely want to argue about it.
My point is the operating system and logo on the computer makes little difference. The applications are what really matters. Most people are fixated on the computing platform and I find that really annoying. The PC and Mac versions of Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, etc. are virtually identical in their functions and the files are cross-platform compatible.
Regarding Apple and the credit it gets for computer graphics, I'm pointing out a very common stereotype. The general public (read: people who don't use graphics programs) think anyone that does creative work on a computer has no choice but to do it on a Mac. The technology press even believes this. Macs are indeed very common in a lot of creative businesses. But so are Windows-based PCs. In particular niches, like 3D animation, modeling, engineering, etc. Linux has made significant inroads thanks to some professional level applications being compiled for certain builds of Linux.
quote: Joe Redifer
I don't see anything in Premiere that would make me want to use it instead of the much more-widely supported Final Cut Pro. You seem convinced that they can best ANYONE no matter what. They are Adobe, after all. They are gods.
Apple has been way ahead of rivals like Adobe, Avid, etc. for years in terms of what it did with Final Cut Studio. But the company has not been concentrating nearly as hard as it did on maintaining that lead. The point is Adobe will eventually catch up if Apple sits back and allows that to happen.
Quark Xpress used to be the dominant application for professional page layout for more than a decade. Every time a new version of PageMaker was released it only drew laughs from graphics people. Adobe kept at it, developed and improved InDesign and that application eventually overtook Quark.
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