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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » Film-Yak   » On Demand Video While Movie Is Still In Theatres Start Next Month (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: On Demand Video While Movie Is Still In Theatres Start Next Month
Chase Pickett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 142
From: Irving, Texas, USA
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted 04-02-2011 09:06 PM      Profile for Chase Pickett   Email Chase Pickett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jonathan M. Crist
Dont you know that an organized boycott is a violation of federal anti-trust laws?

I refuse to believe that. How the hell would you get prosecuted for choosing to not support something that's bad for your business?

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 04-02-2011 11:24 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Chase Pickett
I refuse to believe that. How the hell would you get prosecuted for choosing to not support something that's bad for your business?
He didn't say you couldn't.

Organized boycott != boycott where I chose what to do only on my own. He's referring to where different competitors work together to organize a boycott and thereby negatively affect the third-party's ability to engage in commerce. If your company chose to boycott without consulting your competitors, you'd have no problem. And if you instead consulted your competitors to organize, you could be liable to antitrust issues. There've definitely been court cases related to this.

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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-02-2011 11:44 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Chase Pickett
How the hell would you get prosecuted for choosing to not support something that's bad for your business?
Let me give you an example which actually happened here in Central Pennsylvania a few years ago. At that time Blue Shield was the biggest provider of dental insurance in our area. As with most participating medical plans the dentists who were providing services under the Blue Shield dental plan agreed that what Blue Shield determined was a prevailing charge for a given service was all that could be charged to the patient (and charges above that amount were written off). Dentists usually then got 80% of the prevailing charge from the carrier and 20% as co-pay from the patients.

Well the dentists were really upset that Blue Shield simply was not setting the prevailing charges high enough. At the urging of both the statewide dental society as well as various local chapters, Pennsylvania dentists were urged to consider discontinuing participation with the Blue Shield dental plan. Not surprisingly most dentists in the area then dropped their participation in the Blue Shield plan (meaning those people and employers who had purchased dental insurance through Blue Shield now no longer could use it).

Blue Shield brought suit in federal court against the statewide dental society as well as their local chapters alleging restraint of trade under the anti-trust laws - that the societies had caused a boycott by urging their dentists to de-participate in the Blue Shield plan. The court ruled that what happened amounted to a boycott and awarded millions of dollars in damages against the various dental societies.

In reality the word boycott means an agreement of people to act in concert to punish or cause something (named after Captain Boycott - anybody ever see the movie? It made the recently deceased Stewart Granger a star.)

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-03-2011 12:20 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Chris Slycord
different competitors work together to organize a boycott and thereby negatively affect the third-party's ability to engage in commerce.
But isn't this exactly what the MPAA does when its members get together and decide in concert that they are going to make the theatre-to-video window go from 120 days to 90 days, then even down to 60 days? Doesn't that negatively impact and punish a third party -- exhibition -- in a huge way and in some cases may even put smaller operations out of business altogether? So how come THAT isn't considered anti-trust violation?

Should be exhibition's new mantra: Movies Direct-to-Video without a Movie Theatre are nothing more than made for TV movies. They should print this up as stickum banners and plaster them on the bottom of EVERY 1 sheet they display.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

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From: 청주시, 경북도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 04-03-2011 12:42 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That'd require the MPAA to be sued on behalf of the exhibitors. Good luck finding anyone willing to do that. It sure as fuck won't be NATO.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 04-03-2011 01:05 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah. While I don't agree with the prevailing feeling around here that NATO is totally worthless, they sure have proven their complete powerlessness with this particular issue. The only thing the exhibition industry has to "fight back" with, according to NATO, is to not play trailers or display onesheets for those movies headed for VOD. Big deal.

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Christian Appelt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 505
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 04-03-2011 09:56 AM      Profile for Christian Appelt   Email Christian Appelt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once upon a time, studios had their contract players, built their own stars and owned theatres. Today, movies are not made in the assembly-line manner of the studio system any more. Stars, stories and creative talent are bundled into single or multiple packages.

If the studio/distribution side does not deliver their product to the exhibitors exclusively, if they keep demanding a larger piece of the pie (or want the whole pie), this may have other consequences. When studios and distributors make it impossible for exhibitors to run their business with a profit, they are in fact abandoning a part of the market.

In a system of free trade, if a company decides it will not deliver its product any more or at a reasonable price, someone else will step in. There is an audience that wants to leave home and enjoys the cinema experience. If the major studios are unwilling to give exhibitors enough to make a living, theatres should look for product at better conditions.

I see a chance for that because producing and distributing films can be done with less money than ever before, the marketing makes it expensive.
The current state of studios reminds me of the late 1960s: they are afraid to take chances, rehash formulas ad nauseam and forget parts of their audiences. Bad decisions, little innovation - the dinosaurs are heading for the tar pit again.

They don't want to deal with the exhibition industry any more? Fine, keep your pie and see if you can sell more of it to people at home. Everything it takes to make movies, good or bad, can be bought, and there's enough money out there to buy it. Just a matter of time.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-03-2011 08:48 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Organized theater boycotts of major distributor product may cross anti-trust lines. However, I think major movie distributors are already violating anti-trust with the way they keep screwing the exhibitors. Multiple studios decide to market a new VOD system that will indeed cut into theater profits? Sounds like collusion against the interests of exhibitors to me.

It's really laughable how so many bean counters out there believe the movie industry can survive without theaters. I don't think they have really considered just what could happen if theaters are taken out of the movie business.

What movie studio is going to spend $100 million, $200 million or more to produce and market a major motion picture if the end product is essentially a made for TV movie without a TV network to showcase it?

If the movie studios are so sure they don't need theaters, then why not start going direct to video immediately? Why not take one of this summer's coming event releases, such as Super 8 or Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II and port it directly to VOD and home video release? If what they believe is true the immediate release to home video should generate even more money from the movie being available much faster. Right?

The problem is the theatrical release generates quite a lot of money for studios on its own. A lot of people will see a big event movie in theaters AND buy it later on video. With a video-only release there is no double dip on the customer. Say goodbye to hundreds of millions in potential revenue. The theatrical release also delivers an extra marketing punch for the movie. The buzz on a good movie sticks around for months while the show is still playing in theaters. In a direct to video/VOD environment movies will come and go quickly and often quietly.

Direct to video release just has a certain stink to it. That's because so many low budget crappy "made for cable" movies are churned out direct to DVD. A truly major release would get lost in the tide of that crap. The theatrical release elevates the real movies above the low budget garbage.

I've repeated the dire warning many times before. I really do not think the movie industry can survive without the movie theaters. Simple as that. Big media companies will really screw themselves badly by cutting movie theaters out of the mix.

Without theaters, the public's perception of the movie industry would be irreversibly damaged. Major movie releases would vanish and so would a lot of those direct to video garbage releases. We would end up with a smaller number of lower budget movies made for TV. In the end broadcast/cable TV would end up being the showcase for the best "movie" productions -and those are already very different, typically shows in mini-series form. A mini series like Mildred Pierce on HBO has a luxury of showing so much more of the original novel's story line than the old 2 hour movie could ever manage. Unfortunately cable TV is a pretty limited market, not big enough to recover the loss of major movie release revenue. Even cable TV networks would suffer for the loss of steady stream of theatrical releases to re-broadcast on cable.

quote: Christian Appelt
Everything it takes to make movies, good or bad, can be bought, and there's enough money out there to buy it. Just a matter of time.
While quality production and post production tools are getting much less expensive, it still takes a hell of a lot of money to produce a good quality movie. Actors, sets, costumes, unique locations and more really balloon the size of a movie production budget.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-04-2011 02:36 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with everything in your post, Bobby. It seems so blatantly obvious! So why can't all the educated suits at the studios see it?

Our film booker has told me repeatedly that the studio decision-makers "live in a world of their own." Well that's never been more obvious than it is these days.

Here's a blog post we got in our email from NATO today.

The Wrap
Hollyblog: Studios Are Determined to Kill the Film Business
Published: April 02, 2011 @ 1:01 pm
CINEMA-CON, LAS VEGAS:

Film studios seem determined to kill the movie business completely. After putting video stores out of business by authorizing Redbox to rent videos for $1 per day from what amounts to a Coke machine, now they want to put movie theaters in a coma by authorizing a new at-home video-on-demand release during what has until now been the exclusive first-run theater window.

This comes after demanding for the last 10 years that theaters spend $ billions on digital sound, stadium seating, digital projection, 3D projection and new locations.

Now James Cameron wants a completely new system put in place with enhanced frame rates for further $ billions.

In a stunning suspension of disbelief, many studio executives argue that an enhanced early at-home alternative will encourage MORE people to go to the movie theater -- do people this naive really exist? It sounds exactly like the last ten years of internet gurus and solons calmly insisting that free (stolen) music would encourage higher CD sales. See how well that worked out. Fool me once ... call me a record executive; fool me twice ... what do they think, we're politicians?

I ask: "Are you a movie without a movie theater?"

If you answer “yes” a movie is a movie even if released just on television, then go ahead. In fact, if that’s true why aren’t you doing it now? The TV networks have no exhibitor relationships to destroy, why aren’t they spending $300 million to produce Avatar, or $150 million to produce “the Hobbit” or even $60 million to produce “The Hangover?” I know why because I’ve asked TV network heads in the past. They say it’s ludicrous to assume they could spend like a movie studio for TV product.

The TV movie model does not support the economics of a major feature film. It is the theatrical release that makes a movie a movie and builds the momentum and interest that enables it to gross over a billion dollars. For a major worldwide hit, it is also the largest contributor to the profits of a movie. Don’t be fooled by “retail” numbers. Home video was a very big retail number but the share to the studios was around 35 vs. 60 percent for a major hit in the movie theater.

Further, a major theatrical hit has an unlimited upside while a major video hit is intrinsically limited. Video and television are great for catalog, but they do not fund a front line release schedule -- for that you need the movie theater with its higher per capita income and greater share to the studio.

As for the impact on theatrical attendance, I believe it will be devastating. However, among studio execs the best case quoted to me was a 10 percent drop in attendance with the executives insisting that, "Some theaters will close, others will raise prices ... it's all good." The reality is that a 10 percent drop in total attendance, across the board and permanent, will cause 2/3 of all the theaters in the U.S. to close their doors and never open again.

When I brought this up, the response was that movie theaters were just a real estate play anyway so profits didn’t matter to the theater companies -- something which hasn't been true for 30 years. Today, virtually all theaters are in leased premises rented from mall owners with only older, outdated facilities still existing on owned property.

The lack of knowledge of the economics of the theaters is stunning – but it pales in comparison to the lack of interest in hearing any point of view other than their own.

What is true is that the studios f---ed up the video business deliberately and with full knowledge. They were told by every video store chain that $1/day Coke machines dispensing videos would kill the bricks and mortar video stores. Their response was the typical studio response: "F--- off and get out of my office!"

When Hollywood and Blockbuster shut their stores studio revenue dropped immediately by $ billions. The public’s demand didn't drop by that amount and in fact the volume of video rentals was increasing when this took place, but with increasing volume at 40 percent of the price the stores could not be profitable. The exigencies of a retail business dictate that when revenue drops below the break-even point the entire store closes, not 10 percent of it.

Studio executives are desperate and have invented this accelerated video/internet window mainly as a means to keep their jobs -- see how clever we are, how progressive and forward thinking? The utter denial that this will affect the movie theater is stunning to behold and laughable to listen to if they weren't so serious.

I'm going to say it again -- a 10 percent drop in attendance, with the attendant loss of box office revenue, concessions income and advertising income will CLOSE the theaters. Most theaters have only 15-20 percent operating margins. Amazingly, studios executives are simultaneously haranguing (and alternately ridiculing) the theater owners by demanding they increase their spending on new technology, even as they plan to undermine the theatrical release.

The contempt the studio executives have for the theater owner/operators reminds of the Silicon Valley contempt for what they laughingly refer to as "authored product" -- you know, like books, music, movies and TV shows, stuff people have to think of, write and create and pay for.

Don’t believe me? There are many theater companies which are public. Run the numbers yourself.

What are the options? Theaters could raise their prices -- like Broadway theaters are a viable model for the movies, or maybe Grand Opera is the new model? Go twice a year for $150 a person. The main advantage movie theaters have in the marketplace is that movie-going remains the single cheapest thing a family or couple can do on a night out of the house. Despite complaints over ticket prices and parking fees, by any comparison to restaurants, sports events, concerts, theme parks etc. movies are far and away the cheapest entertainment alternative out of the home.

You could cut the theater in on the income, but: (a) that wouldn’t make up for the lost concessions and advertising income which together are 70 percent of a theater’s operating profit, and (b) wouldn’t that be contrary to the reason for creating the window to begin with making it moot?

Raising prices will simply drive more people to the home alternative. What about cutting costs? Rent for theaters is fixed -- pay it or file Chapter 11 and a drop in attendance doesn’t reduce the mall owner’s need to turn a profit on their development. Over 80 percent of the labor costs are at the minimum wage and people are already complaining that staffs are too small. Utility rates are unaffected by theater attendance. Sugar prices won't go down and neither will the cost of candy. Popcorn notoriously costs only pennies to begin with and the soda companies actually subsidize soda sales.

There are literally NO costs the theater can reduce except two: They can stop cleaning the theaters ... OR ... they can stop paying film rental. Hard to see how either helps things.

On top of all this, a decision to cut off the theatrical window is what strategic planners (something studios seem to have a lot of these days, most with the world "digital" in their title) call a "point” decision. Once you make it, it becomes irreversible and dictates everything that comes after. The famous business school case involves the Navy deciding on the length of the runway for an aircraft carrier. If you put in this window and it cripples attendance as I believe it will and as most studies suggest it will, the theaters will close and they won't reopen.

But you sure look smart for being the one to suggest it, don’t you?

Gotta go now, there's a new Blockbuster opening down the street ... What? Where?

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-04-2011 05:41 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great piece. We pretty much have all been saying much of this for quite awhile. I'll just add this -- we know the studio execs sit in their plush offices and salivate over the opening weekend numbers, hoping against hope that THIER big tent-pole will be up there in the 30, 40, 50 million dollar bracket. Right or wrong, this seems like it is the all-consuming laser focus on which they think their fortunes hang. For them it's the still point of the turning world.

So do these people REALLY think it is even remotely possible that they would be able to see this kind of monetary return if they went direct to all those ancillary markets for which they seem to get enormous erections -- cable, $1 Redbox rental, Netflix, DVD, Video-on-fuckin-Demand? Do they honestly believe they can do anywhere near theatrical level business without theatres? Do they really want to risk their $200 million investment in a major production on Home Video?! How much crack can these guys be smoking?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 04-04-2011 06:13 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did the studios really demand the industry spend billions on stadium seating? I can understand digital sound, digital projection and 3D, but the stadium seating argument sounds weak. To me, that's just competition between exhibitors. Did studios withhold bookings fro complexes solely due to the fact that they weren't stadium seating?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
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 - posted 04-04-2011 08:28 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Theatres also ceased being the "cheapest" out-of-house entertainment too. I always throw up minor-league baseball as an example of a much better/cheaper bang for the buck...if you want to see baseball. Going out bowling has proven to be cheaper than going to the movies too and I'm sure I could rattle off a bunch more. As such, raising ticket/concession prices is not a good idea to spur attendance in movie theatres.

If exhibitors could do it independently, they should simply refuse to play ANY movie that is to be in this early release to home video. Yes, it would hurt, but it would spread the hurt to the studios the most...they have the most invested in any single movie...loosing the theatre revenue and publicity would hurt them more. It would really take the likes of Regal and AMC to refuse to play the movie to get the studio's attention. That would be a huge hurt.

-Steve

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
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 - posted 04-04-2011 08:59 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the 1990s movie distributors really didn't care much at all if a theater installed digital sound or stadium seating. The only thing that mattered to them was the seating count. With digital projection that was an "upgrade" that really did affect their costs: no more film prints to make or ship.

The stuff these media company bean counters are doing is no different than how bean counters are wrecking so many other American businesses. These fuckers are so blind and hell bent on making the next quarterly report look good for share holders they have lost sight of the company's true purpose: selling product to CUSTOMERS. It's the damned customers that matter, not the fucking share holders. If the customers aren't into buying the product the damned company and its stock will be sunk.

I like to bring up Apple as a good example. Its stock isn't over $300 per share because some bean counting dick did some amazing numbers fudging on financials and "down-sized" enough of those icky employees businesses shouldn't have to be burdened with hiring. Apple's stock is priced sky high because its customers love the product. Simple as that. Apple damned near imploded back in the 1990s due to a parade of dip-ship bean counter executives who didn't get it. It took Steve Jobs, a guy who both understood and loved the product, to get Apple steered back into the right direction.

Instead of doing numbers tricks the movie studios and movie theater chains ought to be populating their ranks with people who really understand and LOVE the movie business. The movie studios have to get back to making actual new movies rather than remaking the same old shit over and over and over and over again. The movie studios need to work with theaters to make as many of them a great place to see a movie as possible. Some theater chains, like Warren, are trying to bring back at least some of the movie palace concept. I think the studios ought to be bolstering that rather than undermining it with bad deals and bullshit like this new VOD thing.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 04-04-2011 09:37 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
I always throw up minor-league baseball as an example of a much better/cheaper bang for the buck...if you want to see baseball. Going out bowling has proven to be cheaper than going to the movies too and I'm sure I could rattle off a bunch more.
Those aren't "entertainment" in the same sense that a movie is though. There are lots of out-of-home "activities" that would be cheaper than going to the movies. Such as having a picnic in a park. But that doesn't tell a story or take you out of your hum-drum world on a flight of fancy for two hours (and, you have to make and bring your own snacks). And...come on, bowling? [Big Grin]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-04-2011 10:27 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In that sense, Mike, movies only compete with plays since they tell a story. Entertainment is entertainment, so minor league baseball does count. Picnics wouldn't, though, as they aren't something you usually pay for. Plus, you aren't being entertained. You are just enjoying each others company and that's it.

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