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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Author
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Topic: Cinemark tries to do a nice thing, gets angry response
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-08-2013 07:45 PM
I recall a few airline crashes where the companies arranged to have psychological counseling available for the passengers and crew that survived, as well as the families of those who did not.
Perhaps this is the path Cinemark should have taken, insofar as demonstrating any sense of concern for the victims and families.
Regarding the question of what to do with the actual theatre -- that one's a tough call. I don't have a great answer to that. I don't think it looks good to take this opportunity to turn it into an XD room -- that seems inappropriate because of the marketing gimmickry and hype associated with that. But, then, leaving it more or less "as is" has too much of a "life goes on" kind of feel to it. And I'd be surprised if people want to go see a movie in that particular auditorium. There will always be an elephant in that room, and a sensitive manager would do well to avoid assigning a slasher pic there? Or another Batman movie. But, really, that's just too complicated to keep track of. And, as more time passes, someone's bound to screw up eventually.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be to turn it into the opposite of a "game room" and just redesign it as a "quiet space" -- a big, spacious, tastefully decorated memorial zone -- for people who just want to sit in a quiet lobby while they wait for their show time.
I'll tell you what DOESN'T work for me -- sending an usher in to theatres every 30 minutes with a big red lightsaber-looking-flashlight-thing to do a bullshit "security check" -- it's distracting, and I think there's a better answer to the problem. Namely, exit door annunciators that have to be canceled/reset locally (i.e. at the door in question).
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Mike Blakesley
Film God
Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-08-2013 10:48 PM
quote: Manny Knowles
I think most people would expect part of a movie theatre's product involves ensuring that they don't get shot to death in the process. So, I'd consider that a huge failure on their part -- especially since the "inherent risk" is nowhere near as great as traveling by air.
Inherent risk of what? Do you know how many people have been killed via air travel in the last few years? ZERO. You're far safer in an airplane (flying or not) than you are in any movie theater, elementary school or basically anywhere on planet Earth.
Anyway, keep in mind that Cinemark's security is probably no better or worse than any other theater chain's. You could probably stick a gun under your shirt and simply walk into just about any public place in this country and start firing. We're just lucky that 99.999999% of people are not inclined to do that.
The NRA thinks more armed guards will stop all the gun carnage, but you can't expect there to be armed guards EVERYWHERE -- and that's probably about the only way that every shooting would be stopped, and even that wouldn't work with a really determined shooter. He'd just take out the guard first.
There isn't enough money to pay for all the guards who would be needed to guard every public place...and that's what'd be needed, because the NEXT big shooting is likely to occur at some OTHER type of large public gathering, since the movie theater, college and elementary school have "been done" now.
I still think turning the auditorium into a "memorial" is a bad idea. The best thing is to move on, not keep reminding people over and over of some tragic thing. If a memorial is really desired, why does it have to be in the exact same place as the disaster happened? Maybe a nice park someplace could be dedicated to those victims. (I feel the same way about the 9/11 memorial in New York -- they've wasted millions of square feet of prime space when a memorial could have been built anywhere.)
Probably the best solution to the theater scenario is to have more alerts on the exit doors, and equip the doors with cameras, plus alarms if they get opened. That would require some changes in places where those doors are routinely used as normal exits, but it's probably about the only thing that can be done. The architecture of stadium buildings may not make it possible to include back-of-house emergency exits from the top of the seats but it should be a requirement in new builds.
quote: Manny Knowles
Even if the train *is* put back into service, nobody can really tell one train car from another. A cinema auditorium is different.
And that's why they are changing the auditorium to their "deluxe" version (even though Joe R. doesn't think it's very deluxe, SOMEBODY must think that). If they have any brains at all, like I said earlier, they will also remove the "9" from that auditorium -- maybe change them all to letters, like Auditorium A, B, C etc.
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Sam D. Chavez
Film God
Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 01-09-2013 12:31 AM
"Inherent risk of what? Do you know how many people have been killed via air travel in the last few years? ZERO. You're far safer in an airplane (flying or not) than you are in any movie theater, elementary school or basically anywhere on planet Earth."
This is really not accurate. Flying is pretty safe but there have been several crashes in the last few years, most notable that comes to mind was Air France 447 between Brazil and Paris that stalled in a storm and fell 38,000 feet in less than 4 minutes with over 200 souls on board.
There was one in Nigeria, Russia, Turkey, etc.
Are we only counting just crashes in the USA?
Now that is not many people compared to the number murdered every year in the USA with guns, but still, the risk of getting killed in a public place seems to be going up, judging by the last year or two.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-09-2013 02:13 AM
quote: Mike Blakesley
The architecture of stadium buildings may not make it possible to include back-of-house emergency exits from the top of the seats but it should be a requirement in new builds.
I'm surprised this entire thread isn't backing that concept. Let's face it, as has been stated before, the same nutbag could've shot up a church or any other public place. The difference is I don't know of too many other public places where people congregate that are designed in such a way to TRAP the people in the room for a shooter. The way MOST stadium auditoriums are built, it is the auditoriums themselves that are a death trap.
I genuinely would like to see this become a federally mandated requirement for all buildings going forward. Not auditoriums that are 300+ seats, but ALL auditoriums MUST have at least one exit directly accessible from the back row.
This nonsense of security cameras and door alarms is ridiculous. So big flippin' deal if there is a door alarm. Even if it was done the way Manny wants (which is admittedly the best way, but still useless in the big picture), the alarm goes off and some dopey kid gets up to go investigate. By the time he gets into the auditorium, 50 bullets have already been launched and the kid just walks into his own death. Great idea!
quote: Mike Blakesley
If they have any brains at all, like I said earlier, they will also remove the "9" from that auditorium -- maybe change them all to letters, like Auditorium A, B, C etc.
Joe worked at a theater that "lettered" their auditoriums, and told me of how ridiculous it was. So I'm on the radio saying "Manny there is a problem in B". Did I say B? Or was it E? Maybe I said G? No, I think it was "D". They sound too similar.
quote: Mike Blakesley
The NRA thinks more armed guards will stop all the gun carnage, but you can't expect there to be armed guards EVERYWHERE -- and that's probably about the only way that every shooting would be stopped, and even that wouldn't work with a really determined shooter. He'd just take out the guard first.
There isn't enough money to pay for all the guards who would be needed to guard every public place...and that's what'd be needed, because the NEXT big shooting is likely to occur at some OTHER type of large public gathering, since the movie theater, college and elementary school have "been done" now.
There are a lot of people who will disagree with me on this, but the only way to have a chance at stopping these sort of shootings are in fact licensed people (as in the public) packing (concealed or not, but preferably concealed). Just look at the TSA. Has there ever been a more useless bunch of twats "protecting" us? Nope! Bringing in more "armed guards" to "protect" the public will just be more clueless people standing around eating up tax dollars doing nothing at all. As Mike said above, the guy would just "take out the guard first", but he would think twice if 25% of everyone was packing concealed weapons before he went in and shot up that movie theater, banquet hall, church, etc.
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-09-2013 08:57 AM
Mike, don't be daft!
I don't know about you guys but I suspect most people boarding an aircraft are aware that "this could be it." Statistically, air travel is pretty safe. Yes. All the same, though, is anyone EVER surprised that airplanes DO fall out of the sky from time to time? No. Normal people accept that as the "inherent risk." To quote the movie "Airplane!" (which is never quoted enough) -- "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into!"
Prior to the Colorado shooting, there was never a reason to imagine their life coming to an end in a movie theatre. Even so, if you do the arithmetic, going to the movies remains statistically safer than flying in an airplane. (I can't believe this has to be pointed out.)
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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 01-09-2013 09:31 AM
quote: Brad Miller
Joe worked at a theater that "lettered" their auditoriums, and told me of how ridiculous it was. So I'm on the radio saying "Manny there is a problem in B". Did I say B? Or was it E? Maybe I said G? No, I think it was "D". They sound too similar.
Simple solution - Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo...
Also, 100% agree that the solution to violence like this is getting as many law abiding, sane people to carry weapons as possible and then publicise the percentages. This will both make people think twice knowing about it and also offer real protection when people can defend themselves in these situation. No matter what anybody does with "gun control" you will NEVER keep guns away from the bad guys. We can't keep people from crossing the border how are we going to stop guns from coming across the border? People are much easier to spot than guns.
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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"
Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-09-2013 09:57 AM
Generally speaking, I'm not in favor of "gun control" but I think some of these ideas need further thought.
The problem we'll have with arming all of the sane people will come with attempting to sort out the sane from the insane. Evidently, we have a lot of sociopaths out there who do a good job of appearing sane...until they carry out their evil deeds.
Additionally, it seems as though most shooters understand that these shooting sprees are, among other things, suicide missions. This is where the term "suicide by cop" applies. Hence, knowing that the room is full of people with guns won't *necessarily* function as a deterrent. In fact, it may make the idea that much more appealing. And then we also have to deal with the strong likelihood that not everyone will have perfect aim, or exercise perfect judgment in a crisis situation. What I mean is, I think we'd end up with a fair amount of deaths by way of "friendly fire." And, when the cops finally do show up...how do they know which man-with-a-gun is the real target?
So, I guess I'm not much of a "gun nut" either..?
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 01-09-2013 10:45 AM
Regarding air travel deaths most of those occur in small planes. Many of those crash deaths don't make the national news. Passenger jet airline crashes are pretty rare. You're more likely to die in a car accident traveling to or from the airport than getting killed in a plane crash.
quote: Manny Knowles
I think most people would expect part of a movie theatre's product involves ensuring that they don't get shot to death in the process.
Hardly any business that serves customers in person could make any such implied guarantee of safety. If someone is determined to kill a bunch of people in a public place there's not very much that business can do to stop it. That's especially true if the would-be killer properly develops a plan of attack. It's even more scary if the would-be killer is willing to die in the process of committing the attack. Hiring armed guards might discourage an attack from small arms fire, but it wouldn't do much good if the attacker drove a truck bomb into the building.
We can put more cops on the street, but the police are almost always there after a violent attack has occurred. It's exceedingly rare for them to be there to protect and serve before the attack happens. Police are useful in catching criminals after they've committed a crime. They are a deterrent to crime in that manner. No one wants to get caught. But police are mostly powerless against someone wanting to commit a suicidal terrorist act, especially if the act is planned well enough.
One of the sad facts of life is just about anything involves some measure of risk. It's mostly up to each person to try to protect himself. Gotta be a little street smart. Drive defensively. Eat right and exercise.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote: Sam D. Chavez
Now that is not many people compared to the number murdered every year in the USA with guns, but still, the risk of getting killed in a public place seems to be going up, judging by the last year or two.
Shootings in malls, schools and theaters have lots of people believing more and more murders are being committed each year and that the overall situation with crime is getting worse. The truth is the homicide rate has actually been falling over the last 20 or so years. But one would never know that watching any of the 24-hour so-called news channels on cable or pretty much any other news outlet for that matter. The media gets better ratings by making their viewers angry and scared.
Homicide numbers in the United States are about 60% of what they were in peak years like 1980 or the early 1990s. Between 23,000 and 24,000 murders took place in those years. The US had under 15,000 murders in 2011. New York City has had quite a turn-around. In 1990 more than 2000 murders were committed in the 5 boroughs; in 2012 a little over 400 murders were committed in NYC.
Twice as many people in the United States die by suicide than homicide. Just throwing that out there. You're twice as likely to die by your own hand than get killed by someone else.
quote: Brad Miller
I genuinely would like to see this become a federally mandated requirement for all buildings going forward. Not auditoriums that are 300+ seats, but ALL auditoriums MUST have at least one exit directly accessible from the back row.
While I'm generally in favor of at least one exit door at the back row, such a thing might open a can of worms in bureaucratic expense, like complying with ADA. The new theater might have to add an elevator or two into the design even if people are having to climb stairs to get to the top, back row of the stadium seated area. ADA might demand an area or two up top be cleared for wheelchair positions in addition to other areas below being reserved for them. Overall, such a thing will complicate the projection booth design.
Tactically speaking, it's not really much better for would-be shooting victims to have a back door up at the top of the seating area as a means of escape. The stampede of people trying to get to one or two exit doors up top would create a juicy target for the shooter. All he has to do is concentrate his fire at those exits and watch the bodies clog the escape route. Honestly the situation wouldn't be much different in a standard sloped theater either.
Just how fire proof are movie theater auditoriums? That's another thing that scares me. I can think of a few public space fires here in the United States and other parts of the world where dozens of people were killed, in part because the exits were clogged with bodies of those trying to escape. For instance, the Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, RI killed 100 people in that manner. If someone set off a fire bomb in a theater auditorium I wonder if the same kind of tragedy could happen.
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