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Topic: Tarantino's Hateful Eight to get 70mm roadshow engagement?

Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-30-2014 10:55 PM

In the grand scheme of things on a, let's say, $100million dollar movie, how much would it dent the budget to do a couple of anamorphic 70mm prints and outfit one or two theaters for exclusive runs? I'm sure Hollywood has squandered more on publicity stunts.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-30-2014 11:09 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Regarding the question of whether the movie will be forced through a digital intermediate and its limited resolution bottleneck, I'd give it a 50-50 chance. Hopefully the movie would be processed in a purely film-in and film-out method.

Tarantino is making a point here. I don't see any way he would do a DI, and damn good for him too. It's nice that Nolan is trying to keep film alive, but IMAX is just a shit format for cinematic purposes with their retarded aspect ratio, no masking and downright bad sound systems. Tarantino is smart enough to know the 5/70 format is dangerously close in resolution to 15/70 when using a proper 2.40 ratio anyway, and he is more interested in putting a show on properly than using the deceptive IMAX branding to try and fool people into thinking they are getting a better presentation.

quote: Scott Norwood
Does DTS/Datasat have a 70mm failsafe kit (allows one set of readers to drive two players and switch one player in as a backup in case the primary player fails) for the XD20? I have only seen thise used with the 6Ds.

The XD10 and XD20 can be setup with 6d automation emulation and there are lots of boards that can handle the switching. It's easy. We actually had 3 units at Northpark when we ran Titanic (amidst other dts70 releases), although to my knowledge the lead unit never dropped. It's amazingly solid.

quote: Connor Wilson
and most exhibitors don't have the money for a 70mm projector and know next to nothing about proper handling of 70mm prints.

Sadly that's been the case for a long time. And it's really annoying when people pick up a 3570 machine and just decide they are going to run 70mm. Those are the kind of people that don't truly understand the careful alignment and setup that 70mm needs (especially magnetic acetate), and they end up causing damage to the last few remaining prints. [fu]

to you people out there that do that!

quote: Connor Wilson
I had no interest in Tarantino's last two films and am not very excited about The Hateful Eight other than 70mm.

I know Tarantino's work isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he is one of my absolute favorite directors and Django Unchained was nothing short of awesome.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-30-2014 11:49 PM

To anyone thinking this will ever come out in 70mm: Good luck! Tarantino loves nostalgia and there's nothing wrong with that. He seems like the kind of guy who would prefer 35mm over 70mm. Maybe even 16mm over 70mm. He's not a resolution freak. He's more of a film grain freak. Look what he did that that short car crash movie he made (the only one of his movies I'll likely never watch again). Fake film damage all over! That's what he likes. He doesn't like clean and sterile. The fake logo in the ad is just him being him. Just like that ShawScope logo that was attached in front of Kill Bill, along with the beat-to-hell Feature Presentation tag.

Though I do find it amusing that some of y'all are actually believing it to be true. I hope I'm proven wrong. That's what's awesome about being a pessimist. You're either always right or you're pleasantly surprised. It's awesome, I recommend you all try being a pessimist as soon as it's convenient for you.

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Terry Monohan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 379
From: San Francisco CA USA
Registered: May 2014

posted 07-31-2014 10:36 AM

I think they will do about 10 70mm Super CinemaScope® film prints worldwide. They will play up the 70mm roadshow version, pre show music with curtains closed, intermission and exit music and programs. If It's a western all the staff will be in cowboy/cowgirl outfits. Showmanship returns. The Cinerama Dome in Hollywood plus the Cinerama Theatre up in Seattle WA will show It on their giant curved screens for exclusive runs. Can you imagine If he shoots in duel 2 camera 70mm and 2 snyc projector 70mm 3-D. If the theatres use a large platter and he has a intermission It may work. The roadshow houses will need to hire true projection people and bring them out of retirement. This will be the first time for all the young movie goers to see what 70mm roadshow is all about. MR Quentin can be the new Mike Todd and only show his new 70mm film for the first 30 days in 70mm curved screen roadshow 70mm theatres only. He can be picky about the presentation and how the stereo sound is used in the surrounds. Bring on the 70mm roadshows for a new generation to enjoy.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-31-2014 11:11 AM

quote: Joe Redifer
To anyone thinking this will ever come out in 70mm: Good luck!

I think there's at least a very good chance Tarantino will film The Hateful Eight in 5-perf 65mm format. He has been pretty clear about his intentions to do so. Shooting a movie in 5/65mm or 15/65mm appears to me like a type of conquest for certain directors and cinematographers, at least the ones who give a damn about shooting on film anyway.

It's a lot easier to shoot a movie using video cameras rather than film cameras. That's not to say it's just plain easy to shoot a movie on video. There is a lot of work involved after all. Shooting on film requires more planning, or rather different kinds of planning. Making a movie in 70mm seems like a huge challenge. So if a director and cinematographer can do a great job with it they'll have some serious bragging rights over the video camera weilding horde (not to mention a much better looking end product that will both last and look great for decades).

It's a bigger question whether The Hateful Eight will actually play theatrically in 5-perf 70mm in more than a handful of theaters, if it plays in 70mm at all. I was disappointed Samsara was shot on 65mm, but only released in 4K DCP.

quote: Brad Miller
Tarantino is making a point here. I don't see any way he would do a DI, and damn good for him too. It's nice that Nolan is trying to keep film alive, but IMAX is just a shit format for cinematic purposes with their retarded aspect ratio, no masking and downright bad sound systems. Tarantino is smart enough to know the 5/70 format is dangerously close in resolution to 15/70 when using a proper 2.40 ratio anyway, and he is more interested in putting a show on properly than using the deceptive IMAX branding to try and fool people into thinking they are getting a better presentation.

Digital effects are one thing that may force the use of a digital intermediate on The Hateful Eight. These days both movies and TV shows make very heavy use of "digital back lot" techniques. Computer modeling/animation and compositing techniques allow productions to overcome a lot of limitations with sets, locations and budgets.

If Tarantino wants to do an all analog production and post production he'll need to use practical effects as much as possible. For the other stuff he'll need to employ an effects house that can do everything ILM was doing 30 years ago. For instance I'm not sure if anyone hand paints matte paintings on glass anymore or does rotoscope art by hand. So much effects work has been digital for a long enough time I'm not sure if anyone could get that kind of work done in analog anymore if he wanted to do so.

Regarding IMAX, one thing that worries me is The Hateful Eight might actually need to be printed in IMAX format just so the prints can have a better chance of being handled by projectionists with good 70mm handling experience and projectors that are properly set up to run 70mm.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-31-2014 11:43 AM

Nah...I actually think printing in IMAX would have a negative effect on it all. 5/70 should be the release format of choice. They can put any rider they want on who gets a 5/70 print...in fact, they could definitely do a strict "TAP" like inspection of any perspective facility.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-31-2014 12:37 PM

I would be all for giving out "prints" that are comprised of clear film with the logo in the middle. Each reel can be a few minutes long to speed up the process. Make the prospective theaters run the show at least a few hundred times. See a mark on the print? Fail. [evil]

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 387
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 07-31-2014 02:34 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Obviously DTS/Datasat would be used in some form for the audio on 70mm prints. However, with DTS working on that Open MDA thing there is at least some chance of an advanced, object oriented sound mix being available to run with the 70mm prints. I'm wondering if there's any way to run a format like Dolby Atmos in conjunction with a 70mm print, other than somehow running a DCP and 70mm print in sync with each other.

DTS and Datasat have very little to do with one another - DTS doesn't have anything to do with the cinema industry any longer, other than their proposal to Hollywood to adopt MDA as a file format for object-based mixing (Datasat licenses DTS codecs for our home theater processors, nothing more). There's no development work going into object-based playback in conjunction with film.

It would be fun to do more than just 5.1 though - either a D-Cinema style 7.1, or a 70mm-style mix with 5 screen channels and stereo surrounds. Either could be accommodated using XD10s or XD20s.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-31-2014 03:19 PM

I don't know anything about the story line of "Hateful Eight," but if it needs visual effects, those will most likely be CGI. So at least those shots will be the outcome of a DI. Additionally, color timing could also steer the whole enterprise into DI territory.

Even if this goes all the way to a 70mm release, most people will have no choice but to see it via digital cinema.

In terms of likely outcomes, the cinemas that still have 70mm capability now have a reason to consider keeping it around. However, if the film system has already been decommissioned, it's gone forever. (And, if there's no room for both film and digital, then film will have to go.)

Cue Steve Guttag to tell us how many 70mm installs he's already got lined up for this release! [Razz]

I have no doubt there will be a handful of places "enthusiastic" enough to re-install 70mm for this. But that will not be the norm.

The norm will be d-Cinema.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-31-2014 04:44 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting that 70mm would be the "norm." However, it is possible that there could be a 70mm exclusivity for a VERY brief period if that is what QT wants and has the clout to do it.

As for 70mm venues..."THE MASTER" would be a good feel of who can run 70mm...though I hear not all did it justice. I would doubt if the quantity of perspective 70mm venues has risen since them. However, since The Master was only about 2-years ago, odds are that most of them still have 70mm capability since most/all of them already have DCinema too.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-31-2014 04:45 PM

One thing is certain, if The Hateful Eight is filmed in 5/65mm the resulting Blu-ray and 4K media player imagery will probably look great coming from such a high quality source.
[Razz]

The powers that be in Hollywood really need to keep film around in some form. The most critical element is backup. Digital may have all its flexibility and convenience, but one of the things that sucks the most about it is longevity.

Reels of film aren't perfect, but they can at least last decades. Optical discs, magnetic hard discs and data tapes all can rot or get corrupted in some manner over time. As generations of computer hardware and operating systems come and go all that data stored may be lost because nothing can run the host application to open/recover the data.

We always hear about films like The Alamo being lost forever because the best existing film elements are slowly degrading. Not many people are considering the fact a movie shot 100% in digital and whose data exists only in digital form could be lost in a matter of just a few years, leaving some DVDs and Blu-ray discs as the best surviving elements.

quote: Steve Guttag
As for 70mm venues..."THE MASTER" would be a good feel of who can run 70mm...though I hear not all did it justice. I would doubt if the quantity of perspective 70mm venues has risen since them. However, since The Master was only about 2-years ago, odds are that most of them still have 70mm capability since most/all of them already have DCinema too.

I think The Hateful Eight by way of Quentin Tarantino's popularity would have a better chance of a mass market release and at least have the potential of playing in 70mm at more locations. The Master had more limited appeal. Paul Thomas Anderson certainly has his fan base, but his work just isn't as popular as QT.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-31-2014 08:07 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
I don't think anyone is suggesting that 70mm would be the "norm."

70mm should have always been the norm. 35mm should have been a home movie format like 8 and 16mm. Think about how this would have affected the industry. There'd be fewer cinemas with thousands of auditoriums under one roof because moving prints would be damn near impractical. But even then booths would be far more spacious to house the print moving vehicle. Projectionists could race each other in the booth with these vehicles during the show. All new ways to cause chaos and neglect doing your job.

So has anyone thought to ask Quentin about this 70mm business? How does someone get a hold of this motherfucker?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-31-2014 09:00 PM

quote: Joe Redifer
70mm should have always been the norm.

Talk about a wet dream! [Razz]

I used to move 70mm prints by sort-of interlocking them. For example, to move a print from screen 1 to 2, I would payout from screen 1, go through a couple of MUT rollers and feed it into the projector for 2, where it would takeup normally. Breaking them partway down would've been foolish, as that would've been unnecessary handling. I used that after-hours "print move show" as a means of QC'ing the new screen running that film as well to tweek anything that wasn't perfect. We would've QC'd the print in that screen anyway regardless of how the print arrived to that platter.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-31-2014 11:29 PM

Oh believe, me, I would have loved if 70mm had been the industry standard. It would have also set DCinema back a bit as it would have been much harder to compare favorably (image wise...damage wise digital will always win).

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Terry Lynn-Stevens
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1081
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2012

posted 08-01-2014 02:31 AM

quote: Martin McCaffery
In the grand scheme of things on a, let's say, $100million dollar movie, how much would it dent the budget to do a couple of anamorphic 70mm prints and outfit one or two theaters for exclusive runs? I'm sure Hollywood has squandered more on publicity stunts.

Hollywood knows that 70mm can be a very big draw on per print basis, they just have to look back at their financials from the 70mm releases from the 80/90s for proof, even though the releass were for sound. But, Hollywood seems to be focused on ultra-wide first weekend releases, 70mm in the modern day would do well for exclusive engagements.

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