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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Reclining seats (redux)
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-18-2019 11:06 AM
quote: Marcel Birgelen
To the defense of the theater in question, the screen, although seemingly void of movable masking, looks like it has an aspect ratio of close to scope in its current form.
It looks more like a flat ratio screen to me. I've seen Cinemark houses like that before. I've seen the same approach in some other theaters too. An former Carmike location not far from me in Wichita Falls has some of its smaller houses configured like that photo (complete with 'scope ratio movies being cropped at the ends). At best it could be an odd 2:1 ratio screen with all content getting trimmed to fit it. Regardless of the aspect ratio, no movie theater auditorium should have a screen arrangement like that. An off-center screen with an exit door crammed in next to it gives off the personality of screening a movie in an industrial shed. I wouldn't pay bargain theater prices to watch movies in that kind of setup. It looks awful.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
What about the $25 solution? A shadowbox around the emergency exit lights? In 90% of all cases that would solve the problem pretty efficiently.
And that solution would block off the viewing angles of the exit sign, which would absolutely violate fire codes. By law the exit signs have to be clearly visible to all customers.
As for dimming the light output of exit signs, that would have to be checked against local fire codes.
Nevertheless, light pollution from exit signs is a serious problem for bare un-masked screens. That green light bleed was one of the few complaints I had about a recent visit to a new Dolby Cinema screen installation in Colorado Springs. The green exit signs down on the lower left and right side walls were putting out just enough light to put a green glow onto the lower left and right corners of the screen. It was most noticeable at the end of the Dolby Cinema promotional snipe where the screen is all deep black with the little message "the projector is still on." Normally everything should be close to pitch black, at least on the screen. In this case the glow of those exit signs were creating a serious amount of light pollution.
A combination of curtains and masking would have blocked out some of that ambient light. A shadow box of some sort would have eliminated the problem completely. The shadow box doesn't have to be as deep as the ones used in theaters like the GCC Northpark 1-2 in Dallas (R.I.P.). A bevel around the screen maybe a couple feet deep might be enough.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-18-2019 11:50 AM
quote: Bobby Henderson
It looks more like a flat ratio screen to me. I've seen Cinemark houses like that before. I've seen the same approach in some other theaters too.
I'm not defending the theater layout here, I also don't like "offset screens" for example. I'm not against a "raked floor" setup though, if it's done right.
But I've seen so many screens, I do recognize a scope sized screen from 10 miles. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I've done some pixel measuring: it's circa 322x136 pixels. Measured on the right and simply across the width of the screen. Now, I didn't compensate for the perspective, because I was simply looking at a ballpark figure here. But if you divide 322 by 136 you come close to 2.37, which is awfully close to 2.35. You can do the exersize yourself if you want.
quote: Bobby Henderson
And that solution would block off the viewing angles of the exit sign, which would absolutely violate fire codes. By law the exit signs have to be clearly visible to all customers.
If you throw a black box around all those signs without proper design considerations, yes. But, not if you design it carefully. For a door in front of the theater, besides or below the screen (yeah, I try to avoid those like the plague, but yet many shoebox theaters have them), a properly designed shadow box around the sign will have no impact on visibility to the customers, as long as it is not too deep, yet it would block almost all light falling onto the screen.
A door close the screen in one of the side walls can have a partial shadow box, where the sign is still visible from the rows where the customers are sitting. I've actually implemented this in the past (although I didn't call it a shadow box) and it passed the fire inspection just fine. Now, you could have some local inspector which will go mental about just anything, but usually, they're just interested in keeping the safe away from harm and are willing to work with you on doing so.
In some cases, you can even get exceptions to completely dim the exit lights, if you install some modern fire detection and suppression countermeasures, like equipment that lights up the room and dimmed emergency exit lights as soon as a potential fire is detected. The initial Dolby Cinema rooms built around here got those exceptions and had to do some homework regarding their fire detection systems.
A shadow box around the screen may conflict a bit with modern theater design esthetics and also a bit with movable masking systems and curtains (although both now fall into the almost extinct species category). Also, in high rooms where people look down on the screen, it might block part of the screen. The same might be true for the auditoriums that use a curved screen and are wider at the back than at the front. There might be some merit in the shadow box design, depending on how it fits in the room, but I think it's easier in many cases to approach the problem where the light is created. Sometimes solutions are pretty simple, yet almost nobody is willing to invest time and money into this.
"Ambient Light Management" is a challenge for any auditorium showing movies, unfortunately, it doesn't get nearly the attention it should get.
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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-18-2019 02:27 PM
Many recliner-based auditoriums seem to be geared for either individual viewers or couples, not groups. The seating in AMC's Dolby Cinema houses are usually installed in pairs, with a flip up arm rest for that "love seat" effect.
IMHO, it's a royal pain in the ass going to a movie theater with a group of people. It's all but guaranteed at least one or more people in the group will not have his/her shit together, causing delays or other issues. Reserving all the seats needed in advance could actually solve some of those problems. It forces everyone in the group to actually commit to seeing the movie and doing so at a specific time. Every time I've gone to a movie in a group of 6 or more people we've ended up with shitty seats because one or more people had to drag their feet and make sure we didn't enter the auditorium until the freaking trailer pack or even the movie itself was already in progress. I really really hate that shit.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I'm not defending the theater layout here, I also don't like "offset screens" for example. I'm not against a "raked floor" setup though, if it's done right.
I don't have a problem with traditional sloped floor seating either. Really, I'd prefer if movie theaters could come up with a happy medium between old school sloped houses and these steep stadium seating angles. It would allow for lower ceilings, yielding two big benefits: more use of common height 'scope-shaped screens and far more effective ceiling surrounds in Atmos-equipped houses.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I've done some pixel measuring: it's circa 322x136 pixels. Measured on the right and simply across the width of the screen. Now, I didn't compensate for the perspective, because I was simply looking at a ballpark figure here. But if you divide 322 by 136 you come close to 2.37, which is awfully close to 2.35. You can do the exersize yourself if you want.
The image Mark Ogden posted has a noticeable amount of barrel distortion in it, which makes any such exercise pointless. I'm partly basing my hunch that is a flat ratio screen on past experiences of visiting numerous Cinemark theater locations, along with others using that kind of arrangement.
quote: Marcel Birgelen
If you throw a black box around all those signs without proper design considerations, yes. But, not if you design it carefully. For a door in front of the theater, besides or below the screen (yeah, I try to avoid those like the plague, but yet many shoebox theaters have them), a properly designed shadow box around the sign will have no impact on visibility to the customers, as long as it is not too deep, yet it would block almost all light falling onto the screen.
A light blocking flange around an Exit sign is probably only going to work in odd arrangements like the one Mark Ogden posted, where the exit door is immediately to the left of the screen. Many theaters have doors and the bright exit signs positioned on side walls, turned 90 degrees from the screen. A light box around an exit sign would do little to block light from that sign from shining onto the screen, but it would obscure the viewing angle for people nearest to the wall on which the sign is positioned.
I mentioned shadow boxes around the screen, as well as curtains and masking being useful solutions before. Another solution is better positioning of the exit doors and exit signs near the screen. If the screen can't have extra fixtures like curtains, shadow boxes, etc to block stray ambient light coming from the sides then another solution would be moving the screen a bit forward so exits to the left and/or right of the screen are recessed and behind the plane of the screen.
Theater chains have to put more thought into that situation, especially if they're going to spend quite a bit extra on features like laser projection. All the extra money spent on a high dollar dual laser projection setup in a Dolby Cinema screen goes a good bit to waste if a bunch of that extra contrast is being eliminated thanks to ambient light pollution from things like Exit signs.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-18-2019 03:57 PM
quote: Daniel Schulz
Although I like recliners for the obvious reasons, I've found that for some movies I prefer more traditional seating, because of the crowd size. Comedies are funnier, horror films are scarier and fist-pumping rousing hero shots are more exciting when shared with 200 or 300 or 400 fellow moviegoers, as opposed to 50 or 75.
I totally agree, there is something special about watching a movie together with a sizeable, "correctly engaged" crowd. Unfortunately, the amount of theaters that can seat as many fellow moviegoers is drastically declining and the amount of shows that fill up such rooms along with it...
quote: Bobby Henderson
I don't have a problem with traditional sloped floor seating either. Really, I'd prefer if movie theaters could come up with a happy medium between old school sloped houses and these steep stadium seating angles. It would allow for lower ceilings, yielding two big benefits: more use of common height 'scope-shaped screens and far more effective ceiling surrounds in Atmos-equipped houses.
I think my favorite arrangement is a stadium seated arrangement with a shallow angle. You don't need to put the screen all the way up in such configuration and you don't need a very high room. The problem is that you need more space between rows in order to avoid other seats/other people's heads blocking parts of the screen. Now, if you put in recliners, they're going to need more space in between rows anyway.
Also, if your angle isn't too steep, you can possibly avoid implementing stairs. I know that local fire code around here requires you to provide constant isle lightning if you have hard steps, but without those you don't need any specific isle lightning at all.
quote: Bobby Henderson
The image Mark Ogden posted has a noticeable amount of barrel distortion in it, which makes any such exercise pointless. I'm partly basing my hunch that is a flat ratio screen on past experiences of visiting numerous Cinemark theater locations, along with others using that kind of arrangement.
Sure, there is some distortion in it and I didn't compensate for the perspective either, but there needs to be an enormous amount of distortion and "uncompensated skew" in it to go from circa 2.35 close to 1.85. It might not exactly be 2.35, but it's closer to 2.35 than to 1.85. I'm sufficiently confident to wage a crate of your favorite beer against it. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote: Bobby Henderson
A light blocking flange around an Exit sign is probably only going to work in odd arrangements like the one Mark Ogden posted, where the exit door is immediately to the left of the screen. Many theaters have doors and the bright exit signs positioned on side walls, turned 90 degrees from the screen. A light box around an exit sign would do little to block light from that sign from shining onto the screen, but it would obscure the viewing angle for people nearest to the wall on which the sign is positioned.
There are situations where neither a shadow box around the exit light nor one around the screen will have much effect at all. It requires some case-to-case approaches.
Doors that are sufficiently far away from the screen usually don't cause big problems with falloff on the screen, it's usually those kind of doors close to the screen. It was back in the late 90's when I made a custom "shadow box" to cover the light coming from an emergency exit sign in the side wall close to the screen that annoyed the heck out of me. We made it out of some Medium-density fiberboard which we painted black. Other rooms had their emergency exits positioned further back and due to the relative width of the walls, they were also pretty "inset" so they never really casted any noticeable direct light onto the screens.
I also remember that we put some kind of darkening foil into one very bright exit light at the back of the smallest room we had, as this would also cast some light on the screen and caused some eery glow in the entire room.
Something no shadow box will solve are those fancy LED strips they've been putting onto the steps of those stadium seated auditoriums. Maybe it would help if they would implement specific strips with some polarizers or other kind of filters that reduce the amount of light going towards the screen. I've also found the blue versions to be less obtrusive than the red ones.
In our screening room, we're switching off the exit lightning entirely, but a fire alarm automatically triggers it back on, as does a power outage. It had to be annotated and documented, but it was approved. They told me, had this be a bigger room, they would've required specific evacuation instructions prior any public viewing. Since we don't do public viewings, we don't need to do that in any case. But, if I would be building a cinema right here, I would create a small instruction video or slide show, pointing out the emergency exits in the room and put it into the pre-show and dim the exit lights completely.
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