Rocky Horror Picture Show (Normal / Proper Aspect?)

[Randy Stankey]

I bet it was cheaper to do that way. They shot the original footage at full frame because it's easier. It's not THAT much more expensive to build 16 ft. scenery flats than it is to build 12 ft. flats. Most of that stuff gets reused and recycled, anyhow. They probably pulled half the stuff out of storage. What you get from all that is the ability to decide what format to make the film when you get down to final editing.

Then, when you get to the editing room, you can make the film for 1.85, 1.66, 16mm or any of the other, various, video/internet formats. (Not that they had digital distro in those days.) If you ever decide to re-release to video or anything else, you've got the flexibility you need to do what you want.

If they had shot the movie in, say, 1.85 with hard mattes, they'd be stuck with that.

Rocky Horror wasn't supposed to be an epic, cinematic masterpiece. It was meant to be a one-off thing...brain candy...just for fun. Nobody ever imagined that it would reach the cult status it has, today. Tim Curry certainly didn't! I bet he'd rather forget it ever happened!

The movie was made on the quick and cheap... Git 'er done!

When we present the movie, today, it's important to do our jobs well but it's also important to remember how and why the movie was originally made and to temper our work attitudes to that.

So, as I said, do your job and be a professional but don't sweat so many of the details. They certainly didn't when they made the movie!

[Jesse Skeen]

That’s not a microphone, it’s some hanging light or decoration on the church. But even in the commentary track on the DVD, they think it’s a boom mike.

[Tim Reed]

Interesting. As I recall, most flat movies in those days were full frame, simply because that's what the cameras captured. You just had to know when you were "in frame" while showing it. I may be having faulty memories, but I don't recall seeing hard matted prints until the late 70s. Heaven Can Wait stands out, because it was all over the place, up and down, through the whole movie. Smokey and the Bandit was full frame, but you can tell by looking at the frame that it was definitely composed for 1.85. Mics showed up on early TV screenings.

I ran Rocky Horror for years at 1.85. I had 1.33 and 1.66 options in that particular venue. I ran things like 28 Up at 1.66 because it was made for British television (and 25 fps!! The manager could never figure out why the Up series always ran long. LOL) But RHPS show was made for theatres, and I never noticed any cropping at 1.85.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Interesting. As I recall, most flat movies in those days were full frame, simply because that's what the cameras captured. You just had to know when you were "in frame" while showing it. I may be having faulty memories, but I don't recall seeing hard matted prints until the late 70s. Heaven Can Wait stands out, because it was all over the place, up and down, through the whole movie. Smokey and the Bandit was full frame, but you can tell by looking at the frame that it was definitely composed for 1.85. Mics showed up on early TV screenings.

I ran Rocky Horror for years at 1.85. I had 1.33 and 1.66 options in that particular venue. I ran things like 28 Up at 1.66 because it was made for British television (and 25 fps!! The manager could never figure out why the Up series always ran long. LOL) But RHPS show was made for theatres, and I never noticed any cropping at 1.85.

Yeah you are correct that there is a certain vintage or period to the prints being provided full frame even if a smaller aspect was intended. I don't know when hard mattes became popular... probably after many chains stopped being able to do proper masking? Or perhaps there was some lab specific process that caused many to adopt it. It may equally have to do with the frame size and format of the original camera (or cameras)... or intermediate process.

[Ryan Gallagher]

That’s not a microphone, it’s some hanging light or decoration on the church. But even in the commentary track on the DVD, they think it’s a boom mike.

Wow, you are correct! A few shots earlier in the sequence you can see that it is the hanging lantern above the church entry way.

OpenMatte_Wedding_Lantern.png

So why does the whole internet think that was a microphone, or is there some other shot they speak of. It does swing a bit, so maybe the movement is what made everyone jump to the conclusion. There is a shadow line also, perhaps they assumed that was from the boom, but I would guess it is the pole/chain suspending the lantern.

Suppose I'll have a full res print to inspect soon. lol (for amusement sake)

[Leo Enticknap]

Interesting. As I recall, most flat movies in those days were full frame, simply because that's what the cameras captured.

It's a similar concept to shoot and protect, the difference being that in some cases, the filmmakers didn't care what went on outside the safe area, meaning that even a movie intended for 1.85 had to be panned and scanned for TV. The 16mm nontheatrical prints of Hollywood movies made from the '60s to the early '90s usually weren't, though, with the result that boom mikes were a common sight if they were played on a typical classroom or airliner projector.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Wrapping up this topic. Had a great screening last night... nearly full house (1059) and they all had a blast... Snagged a photo of our curtain projection used during walkin and walkout. My alternate experimental sound format for walkin music with curtain worked out pretty good, was very much a party down there.

I went very non-traditional contemporary/next-generation with elements of the playlist this year, if anyone is a RHPS fan, critique welcome:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1ZsT9zXckie9mRDLrPzdGd?si=6b2fd4b7960a4d0a

Both of us were handed bow-ties by one of our house managers in full dress, I'm gonna attribute our getting past those problem spots to the fact we kept them on the whole show. They are now in the booth for next time. Traditions are easy to start.

2025_Curtain_Projection.jpg


this Criterion print of course left quite a bit to be desired quality wise, but expected considering it's the longest running theatrical release in history.

But on the aspect ratio topic. This particular 35mm print was matte 1.85. And just so everyone can remain confused... the 2K DCP we got for the backup was the F166 one again (with no label heads up). Thankfully we did not need the backup so I didn't have to run downstairs and move the side masking. Given more prep time today I would have sized and cropped it to 1.85 to match the print, but we opted to screen test all reels instead.

Condition details:

Our copy was a hodge-podge of reels from different prints (based on the color), on acetate, slightly shrunken... but decent color on most reels. Just used and abused, vertical scratches on most reels, tons of repairs, arrived with masking tape, missing a R1 countdown (was just black framed leader), and a couple heads or tails spliced on with the soundtrack on the wrong side (was that an intentional practice at some point?), imagine this one has been plattered in it's not too distant past. Print took 5 hours to inspect, if we get it again I'll be tempted to give it another 4 hours at least and redo a bunch more repairs, try to get it a little less jumpy at the splices.

It was rough enough with stiff or thick splices that on the lower drive pad roller we had to again use the "finger in the projector" method for a couple problem reels to avoid skipped sprockets and loss of audio tension. I learned this trick on our horrific "Strange Days" print (also Criterion). Our screen test had a couple stops for audio tension, but we got through the actual show using finger method to keep our pad rollers from jumping and the last sprockets of tension in play.

Our only onscreen gotchya was as reel 1 ends and it jumps 1 perf out of frame right before the cue marks (so many cue mark sets on this print!!!)... we looked again and could not find any framing issues with the repairs or obvious causes, but did it both times we ran it. We obviously missed something needing fixing or a re-repair.

[Buck Wilson]

The lips look fantastic on the curtains! It's like it was made to be done that way!

[Ryan Gallagher]

The lips look fantastic on the curtains! It's like it was made to be done that way!

Thanks. I wish we were straight into the film after in a proper curtain start, but we had an interview clip about a 76 screening with Curry attending As well as a sponsor ad, followed by live intro.

But even so the curtain transition with the warmers fading and lips landing on the screen did earn quite the audience roar, timed to end with the conclusion of “It’s Raining Men” certainly helped. ;-)

[Carsten Kurz]

Can you quote the CPL (or KDM) that you played? We have an older FOX DCP in our Backup.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Can you quote the CPL (or KDM) that you played? We have an older FOX DCP in our Backup.

Sure, posted the DCP info over in the proper forum topic:
https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...-dcp#post52084

[Carsten Kurz]

That's the same DCP we have in our Backup. Seems to be still the version from 2012.

[Scotty Wright]

Amusingly, it seems us booking the print for our summer film series is a bit guilty of "early celebration", as the 4K Restoration 50th Anniversary edition hits cinemas and shelves in October, complete with cast roadshow tours. October is a good choice of course.

https://playbill.com/article/original-stars-of-the-rocky-horror-picture-show-to-tour-north-america

I'll be curious to see what aspect ration that Disney DCP contains.

I caught the new remaster in a Dolby cinema the other day and it’s a 1.66 presentation, presumably in a flat container.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I caught the new remaster in a Dolby cinema the other day and it’s a 1.66 presentation, presumably in a flat container.

Figured as much, another reason to convince my superiors to finally get 1.66 lenses if we want to run prints again.

Also watched a good condition print sell on eBay recently, looked to be much nicer than the one we ran, was VERY tempting. Hopefully it went to a house that does shadow casting.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Not to revive an old thread. But celebrating our LAST screening before closing the Paramount venue for 11 month historic restoration, and will be a late showing of Rocky Horror to 1200 people on DCP. Appropriate and excellent. We'll see if we fill the house again without it being on 35mm, it was a fairly late addition when a live show cancelled.

The 2025 Disney remaster is indeed a F166 presentation.
RockyHorrorPic_FTR_F-166_EN-EN-CCAP_US-R_IAB-VI_4K_TCF_20250813_DLX_SMPTE_VF
RockyHorrorPic_FTR_F-166_EN-EN-CCAP_US-R_51-VI_4K_TCF_20250814_DLX_SMPTE_OV

Got my walkin party playlist sorted for tonight... (i'm not as traditional as some would be, until the end that is)
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7isF7vJPEiscVH2XCedDFX?si=e52bcc8f47b74c64

.... reusing the curtain projection from last year, custom preset on the AP20 for music with curtain compensation again, which worked well last year.

It should be a fun send off.