In the locations installing 70mm for this latest round of big productions... are they bothering to also install penthouses and MPUs? I'm curious to know if they want the capability to maybe show a 70mm classic at a later date.
-
-
By and large, I'd say that the answer is no. The big conversion a decade ago for H8 didn't include magnetic sound (or 35mm capability). The more recent installations, that I've seen, have not included magnetic sound. The realities are, what striped magnetic 70mm prints that are in the world are now never going to increase and, with time, going to decrease. Add into that prints struck before mid/late 1982 will be very faded leaves you with a pool of about 10-years (give or take) to draw from. Most of those will be blow-ups too.
I suspect that if a theatre did want to support magnetic sound, that BL&S, MTE or whomever is supplying the equipment would do so as there are probably an abundance of penthouses for JJs and even for other brands. And, while new heads are not a thing you can just order, what head life that is left is going to outlast the remaining prints.
The last magnetically capable theatre we put in was the Library of Congress in Culpeper, VA. Kinoton FP75EQ with full 10-track heads (35mm magnetic too). But, that is the LOC so running old-stuff is their mission. Faded prints are also not a disqualifier.
The AFI/Silver (which also have 10-track heads) recently ran 70mm magnetic for T2. So, it does happen...just not all that often. -
Rather than investing in analog sound and wearing down the last few magnetic soudtracks out there, I think efforts to make 70mm compatible with modern sound formats are more worthwhile, stuff like the recently showcased BL&S TS-1 for example.Comment
-
I'm aware of a couple of locations that put in 70mm a couple of years ago. I don't know
where they sourced their equipment from, but their projectors have mag penthouses
simply because they were attached to the equipment they bought. The penthouses
had the came with heads, but what shape they're in is anybody's guess. And, of
course, if they decided they wanted to play a mag sound print, they'd also need the
mag-sound pre-amps and a processor that could handle that sound format.
That being said- - as I recently posted in another thread, this past weekend I ran
a 70mm mag-sound print of BATMAN (1989) at several shows. Several customers
commented on how good it sounded, and I know when I QC'd a couple of reels
earlier in the week, I was surprised at the sound quality when I stepped into the
auditorium. But it is a physically fragile format, and probably not worth the trouble
and expense to put in new installations, unless it's a museum or archives.Comment
-
We were in a mode of desiring to keep our mag capabilities, and were showing occasional prints with it... and have not trashed any of that... but it needs a decent servicing beyond the usual (and a replacement 6 track head) before we re-open that can of worms a year from now.
The main problem I've noticed is that our programmer and distributors often aren't even positioned to answer which type of soundtrack a particular print has. They book back catalog stuff and then I have to intervene to tell them it's a no go because it's a mag print based on historical research.Comment
-
For the Hyland Cinema in London Canada we are equipping both Vic 8 machines with everything. Mag penthouses and full 35/70 capability.Comment
-
Thanks, everyone!
Comment
-
Just a note. I have a very few new Teccon heads. Both 35 and 70 And maybe ampex and westrex left.Comment
-
Answer: For the most part, NO. And, as far as I'm concerned: THANK GOD.
After H8 came out, there was a sudden resurgence of interest in old 70mm titles, so a lot of theatres blew the dust off, or rescued from a dumpster, or had installed some sub-par junky (sometimes "rebuilt" [quotes advised]) projector head & they then hit up the studios to rent them old mag prints & the studios obliged & out those prints went -- many of them the only surviving copy -- where they were run by pimply-faced arrogant sprocket-jockeys who didnt have Clue One about how to handle the format and every one of those prints got systematically WRECKED.
I saw this in action with my very own eyes. When we ran our first Widescreen Festival in 2016 -- it had been in the works long before H8 was released -- we received one of the Harris restoration prints of Spartacus from Universal that was in absolutely gorgeous condition: not a mark, not a scratch, not a splice. When we played the same print a couple of years later, it was a shitshow of damage. Same with a print of The Untouchables: came in lovely, came back a few years later with lots of long lines through the entire thing.
The Wild Bunch print from Warner -- as far as I'm aware, the only surviving one held by the studio -- has noise all over the tracks because some numbskull ran them over a magnetized roller, on top of the print having been worn & beaten to utter crap. We've run that a few times, & it shows up worse each & every time. Oh, & other venues have contacted me about it, & then run it in the incorrect sound format, so it can both look and sound like utter crap.
I could go on, but this is, without a doubt, happening with reliable consistency, so the idea of having more stupid, unskilled, film-mangling dunderheads putting their KFC-encrusted fingers all over these dwindling number of remaining prints & introducing base scratches, emulsion scratches, loop scratches, JJ scratches, cinch scratches, platter scratches, track damage, dirt, grime, wear, & god knows what else is not something I would welcome. Let them destroy all the DTS prints; there are plenty of those, and apparently, no one is going to fine them for anything.
I am, as I'm typing this, running that recently discovered original 1989 print of Batman, & right now, at this moment in time, it's in excellent condition. I'd bet anything that if we booked again two years down the line, it would show up looking hideous. Any takers? The clock is ticking.
Apologies for the rant, but this is like a stake in my heart. The simple fact is that there are only a handful of people left who know how to run 70 without completely screwing it up, & the clock is ticking on them, too.Comment
-
Not a paid promotion for Brad / Film Tech's distribution but it seems like those prints have a much better chance of survival. Prints I have seen in the last few years that didn't come from Brad all seem to have at least one completely destroyed shipping case that is causing further damage to the reels half of which probably should have been discarded in the 1990's. I'm not even the projectionist lately so I'm not seeing every reel of every print up close, those are just my observations walking though the booth. Not that this is anything new its more or less been a problem since the 80's but what is new is Brad has come up with a durable reel and a reasonable way to pack and ship them.
It seems to me that many of the people currently in the booths are trying to do their best they just for various reasons don't have anyone to learn from. Mag is a great example in that literally it can be damaged by invisible forces. Even if you are lucky enough to have a machine like a AA2 that doesn't really have anything in the film path that can be magnetized you still need to check the rest of the booth and other areas where the film will be. There are then some other common machines that all it takes is someone doing a quick repair with a magnetized screwdriver at some point in the last 20-30 years. Then there is the upper? sprocket in a Simplex that just seems to magnetize itself from running.Comment
-
I have found the magnetism thing to be mostly overblown. I can't tell you how many machines I measured back in the TAP days (back when mag was a thing) and how little I found and never anything approaching the point of damaging a print.
Oddly, where I did run into problems was on Christie platters with the black rollers and accentuated when both guide posts are on the feed plate. Mag prints will shed, particularly if they are not cured well. That area of the Christie centerfeed would collect debris, including bits of mag track. Some of those bits would have a charge on them. The black rollers were real bad at turning true so you'd get the print moving up/down between those posts to the period of the center cluster roller and as the film cam down, either Left or Surround (depending if you were an emulsion-in/out threader) would get a nice "tick" in it.
What can get magnetized in a projector? Any ferrous metal. The head can, over a decent period of time (of use) but materials like Sendust don't tend to hold a magnetic charge. Aluminum is safe. It's the steel that I would be most concerned about. So, if the sprockets, gate parts or even shafts that rollers spin upon are made of steel, they are all suspect. Oh...and don't forget the changeover coil. It has nice electro-magnetic coils. If not well shielded, you'll hear the hum (if AC...like 95% of the installations are) get into the heads (I've heard it on Simplex (for sure, there is nothing on late model machines to stop it), Century (be sure to have both the µ-metal plate where the changeover mounts to the penthouse as well as the full head shield), Norelco DP70 with a Zipper changeover. And, if the head is picking it up...that field is passing through the mag tracks.
I'll admit, when I tended to some Simplex 35/70s, I don't recall the sprockets being a particular problem (magnetic wise). The penthouse contraption that Strong was sending out had issues in its design (as noted, no shielding and it was missing a spring to offset the downward pull of gravity on the rollers. Many people would "ding" the Simplex for not having a driven sprocket in the penthouse but, really, that wasn't a particular issue (any more than the Dolby Digital penthouses not having a driven sprocket).
If a 35/70 sprocket really did get a charge, that would take quite a bit to try and neutralize it. There is a lot of mass there and what would have place the charge on it?Comment
-
I do remember going to sites back in the first run days because of damage mid run and having to try and find what caused it. Sometimes it was easy because they would tell you what had recently changed in the booth but other times you really had to search. It wasn't super common but it did happen and this was also in the TAP days so things were checked before the run. Back then they would send replacement reels or a whole print and then I guess take it back to the lab and re record it.
In the later 90's when these prints were mostly running around as classics is when I saw quite a few prints with track damage. Often times the picture also had damage but there were a few that were otherwise mint so it was really a shame that the experience was still ruined. Sometimes it would be the whole movie. Sometimes every other reel. Sometimes just one reel. We would have to work up and write a cue sheet and go work the amp gains to cut the offending channel unless it was really important.
My experience sounds pretty similar to what David described above except I was doing it in the later 90's and early 2000's. We would get a print that was overall in decent shape and would do enough business to bring back at some point and every time they came back they would be a little or sometimes a lot worse. Back then there were not that many people doing classics in 70 since most of the houses with 70 equipment were happy doing their usual first run with digital sound. That's also the era they were closing down and consolidating many of the regional film depots so there were sometimes prints turning up that had not been previously available. There were even a few times we got prints that were either new or if they had been run had only had a couple passes. They must have been shipped to the depots for a booking that fell through or maybe as a backup and then just sat on the shelves for years.
On Centurys I would often find one spot on the sprockets that were 'hot'. Probably caused by a screwdriver and maybe makes it easy to do because the 70 area is hollow so its fairly thin? In the context of cinema maybe someone was replacing a HF diaphragm so their screwdriver got a charge? Or they drop a lot of screws and don't usually work on mag stuff so charged them on purpose? Those are easy to clean up because they fit in the coils I have if you take them off the machine. Simplex ones didn't seem to get hot spots perhaps because they have a lot more mass compared to a Century? But I have seen them get an overall charge that maybe came from the shaft? Those don't fit in the coils I have so are a little harder to clean up but the shafts were easy to clean up and that seemed to be where it was coming from. I'm not sure how an overall charge would effect the tracks, I assume its not ideal but at least its not a tick or thump like you seem to get off a Century sprocket.
I'm not sure where the coils I have came from they just came to me as a kit from another tech. I do remember them being refereed to with a number but I don't know if they were meant for degaussing or if they were repurposed from some other equipment. At one time I remember having I think a Radio Shack branded 'bulk tape eraser' but that didn't seem to work as well as the coils. I remember a custom coil being made one time that you could just about get a whole Century head in. That was made for platters. I don't recall which brand but it turned out they used magnetic jigs and fixtures to make em and occasionally you would get one that maybe spent a long weekend in the jig and had a really strong charge. It would get 'focused' at joints and bolt heads which could be very close to the film path.Comment
-
I'm not buying that magnetized screwdrivers are charging up projector parts. There just isn't that much magnetism to transfer. Fun fact (that I discovered/learned recently) Wera's "Stainless Steel" line of screwdrivers (have the pale blue grips on the handle) WILL take a magnetic charge. Normally, stainless steel will not but Wera formulated theirs so they could, like other screwdrivers. So, if you are working on a magnetic system, check the charge on your drivers, including the SS ones.
Tape head demagnetizers can work on smaller parts (and what I have used). Again, it is the steel stuff. Generally, I'd run the meter through the full film path and see how the needle deflected.
image.png
An analog meter is your friend here as you can very easily see as you wind your way through as you move near/away from something magnetic. R.B ANNIS (quit laughing you juveniles). They also make demagnatizers.Comment
-
This unit has never let me down. For large items we still have old 1/4 hp motor with no rotar in it with a 1000watt lamp in serrries to degause
Comment
-
Now that a motor was mentioned as a demagnetizing tool I think I remember seeing such a thing. Makes sense it would have been something fairly easy to come by and adapt. I remember it being on a shelf in a booth and a big light bulb being next to it. I just assumed it was random parts but now I bet that's what it was there for.
I have never tried to magnetize a sprocket before just assumed that a screwdriver was how it happened. Guess I will have to try it and if that doesn't work see what it takes. If that isn't how it happens then its an even greater mystery how it happens. One could see various types of magnets in various other places in a booth for various reasons but why would you end up with one in a projector?Comment
Comment