Any experice with panastereo processors?

[Javier de Blas]

As far as I knew dolby was the only player in the game of 35mm sound processing (excluding the obvious digital systems, dts and sdds that at the end were almost always hooked up to a dolby processor). But lately I've been reading marvels about the Panaestero CSP 1200. Even the BFI uses it as their main processor. I asked two spanish technicians that have made hundreds of installations and they have never seen one in the country.
So I would like to ask to the more experienced participants in the forum. Have you ever seen this processors at work? Are they as good as they claim?
Do you know if they have been sold in europe at any point?
Is it really difficult to find one to buy nowadyas?

Thanks in advance, best regards, Javier

[Steve Guttag]

I've worked with them (and still do). Think of the CSP1200 as a CP65 but with significantly higher-end and more flexible.

The signal flow is similar and one that knows how to install/calibrate a CP65 will know how to install/calibrate a CSP1200. Now, you'll need a Panastereo Pink Noise generator if you want to configure it properly though you could generate your own and pipe it in.

The optical preamps are quieter and flatter. The Noise Reduction (A and SR) are as equivalent as one can get and their SR is notably better than Dolby's fake "SR" used on the CAT222 "SR"/A. However, if desired, you can use CAT280s in the CSP1200 for SR (as I have done in screening rooms).

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The Panastereo's EQ cards are notably quieter than Dolby's CAT64 or CAT64B and Panastereo's Matrix decoder is equivalent, and again quieter than Dolby's CAT150. The net result is a unit that is about 10dB quieter than Dolby's (hence I used it for screening rooms...they didn't hiss.

Then there is integration. The CSP1200 has two Non-Sync inputs, three 6-channel inputs plus microphone. So, you can have DTS and Dolby Digital and something else entirely. Very flexible. The CSP1200 works with contact closure and RS232 (remember the era it was designed in) so it can integrate better, including for volume changes.

So, at the end of the day, it is an easier to integrate unit that sounds better. Very few of the ones we installed came out during the digital conversion because they kept their film capability.

Things to watch out for:

• Tantalum capacitors are used throughout on their power rails for each card. I've had some units that shipped with 25V caps and they will fail. The 35V caps have not (there is also one of those Tantalums hiding on the front panel board. If you're nervous, replace with electrolytics and you can even step up the capacitance some (they shipped with 47µF but you can go a bit higher).
• The PS410 power supply's fan will fail. Periodically, change it. Some have had issues with one of its bridge rectifiers but I have not. The PS510 (later, switch mode) used two smaller fans. I have not had issues with it.
• It is possible for some of the output cards to get noisy relays. Just be on the watch for it, if you get intermittent channels. I might have had one or two that got this way...could have been a bad batch of relays.
• The Control Logic Card has a 3.6V Varta battery (soldered in). If the unit is left off for protracted periods of time, it will leak. If you are storing the unit, remove the battery. It is only used to remember where things were last set (volume and any custom configuration done on the front panel).

Overall, I think it was one of the best processors the industry ever had, for what it does. It also had a pretty full featured remote control too

[Javier de Blas]

I've worked with them (and still do). Think of the CSP1200 as a CP65 but with significantly higher-end and more flexible.

The signal flow is similar and one that knows how to install/calibrate a CP65 will know how to install/calibrate a CSP1200. Now, you'll need a Panastereo Pink Noise generator if you want to configure it properly though you could generate your own and pipe it in.

The optical preamps are quieter and flatter. The Noise Reduction (A and SR) are as equivalent as one can get and their SR is notably better than Dolby's fake "SR" used on the CAT222 "SR"/A. However, if desired, you can use CAT280s in the CSP1200 for SR (as I have done in screening rooms).

image.png

The Panastereo's EQ cards are notably quieter than Dolby's CAT64 or CAT64B and Panastereo's Matrix decoder is equivalent, and again quieter than Dolby's CAT150. The net result is a unit that is about 10dB quieter than Dolby's (hence I used it for screening rooms...they didn't hiss.

Then there is integration. The CSP1200 has two Non-Sync inputs, three 6-channel inputs plus microphone. So, you can have DTS and Dolby Digital and something else entirely. Very flexible. The CSP1200 works with contact closure and RS232 (remember the era it was designed in) so it can integrate better, including for volume changes.

So, at the end of the day, it is an easier to integrate unit that sounds better. Very few of the ones we installed came out during the digital conversion because they kept their film capability.

Things to watch out for:

• Tantalum capacitors are used throughout on their power rails for each card. I've had some units that shipped with 25V caps and they will fail. The 35V caps have not (there is also one of those Tantalums hiding on the front panel board. If you're nervous, replace with electrolytics and you can even step up the capacitance some (they shipped with 47µF but you can go a bit higher).
• The PS410 power supply's fan will fail. Periodically, change it. Some have had issues with one of its bridge rectifiers but I have not. The PS510 (later, switch mode) used two smaller fans. I have not had issues with it.
• It is possible for some of the output cards to get noisy relays. Just be on the watch for it, if you get intermittent channels. I might have had one or two that got this way...could have been a bad batch of relays.
• The Control Logic Card has a 3.6V Varta battery (soldered in). If the unit is left off for protracted periods of time, it will leak. If you are storing the unit, remove the battery. It is only used to remember where things were last set (volume and any custom configuration done on the front panel).

Overall, I think it was one of the best processors the industry ever had, for what it does. It also had a pretty full featured remote control too

It sounds simply amazing. Now I want one of those beauties badly. Some touches seem absolutely like a technician was fed up with dolby and wanted to do things right, 3 6 channel inputs, that's just amazing. I've seen really crazy set ups to fit dts, sdds and magnetic to a CP500.
And the labeling is fabulous, that's how a product should look, not tens of chips in one board that you can't know what they are for except if you look at them with a magnifying glass.
I'm simply amazed.

[David Ferguson]

Now I want one of those beauties badly.

Join the queue - I also really want to get one of these. They are annoyingly rare though, especially here in Europe.

The BFI's NFT1 in London has one, which was the first time I have seen one in person. The output of it goes into a Trinnov Ovation2 processor so that may be the best sounding analogue path there is...?

[Marco Giustini]

• The Control Logic Card has a 3.6V Varta battery (soldered in). If the unit is left off for protracted periods of time, it will leak. If you are storing the unit, remove the battery. It is only used to remember where things were last set (volume and any custom configuration done on the front panel).

If it's like one of those Varta regularly destroying vintage computers, I'd say "remove it ASAP" and you'll fix it later!

It sounds like a nice unit, Steve. I'd imagine Dolby was more popular because it had "Dolby" written on it ?

[Steve Guttag]

It's a NiMH.

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When I change them, I normally use a different variety (never leaked on me yet):

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Dolby invented the technology (NR, signal flow, growing the surround decoding from the Sansui QS to Pro-Logic). Dolby also supported the technology (from film production through release). I put in WAY more Dolby than Panastereo. Dolby would have to go through committees for product development...right down to what color the thing would have. Even though Dolby was/is a relatively small company, compared to the other players in the cinema processor game, they were the "big boys." Panastereo had a committee of one...Ray Derrick. Since his boxes had to play back the same movies that Dolby's boxes did, that sort of sets the signal flow and what you had to mimic (noise reduction, frequency response...etc.). However, nothing stopped him from improving on the audio architecture as well as integration features. That is why it is quieter and with better VCAs and has RS232 when Dolby didn't offer that until the CP500 (sortof). It's easier to design something better when you can see what the other person has done.

It is also easier to design something cheaper (e.g. SMART) when you see what the other person has done too. It is also easier to design something semi-competitive, but also cheaper, when you've seen what the other person has done (Ultra Stereo). None of them could make move, however, without Dolby in the lead because the movies were going to be mixed on Dolby equipment and will sound the way they mixed it, when played back on Dolby equipment.

And, let's be honest, Dolby made some really good equipment that is still running to this day.

But yeah, if you put a CP65 on the table and a Panastereo CSP1200, I'll take the Panastereo every time. It will sound better/cleaner and deliver whatever the tracks have on them. The first time you do an A-chain with a Panastere, that alone, you'll know that you are dealing with something better. They come out that much better...that much more text-book. The CP200 remains my favorite cinema processor, for other reasons, partly for how forward thinking it was, for its time but the Panastereo is the cleanest of them all. It is also incredibly flexible.

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The "70mm" box, the CSP4600 I only used for 70mm in one location (see above about my preference for the CP200). But, I did use it for 5-screen channels. It had 6-channels of A and SR noise reduction...which was handy for use with a dubber (sep-mag) and they made line-level input cards for it so you could expand the input capabilities of the CSP1200 by up to another 5 sources! That can be handy if you have a bunch of video or other A/V sources coming in:

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With the RS-232 communication, it is all integration friendly with AMX, Crestron (or Q-SYS).

[Gordon McLeod]

We install many of them in Canada and they are the best unit i have installed

[Stefan Scholz]

They were really great, and among the best audio gear for film I know.
I use the magnetic 6 track for my setup, and it's fantastic. I have done a few, but there are for sure rare in Europe.
It was discontinued at a point, and there's been a chance to continue making them, but there's not been any demand at the time.

[Pete Naples]

Join the queue - I also really want to get one of these. They are annoyingly rare though, especially here in Europe.

The BFI's NFT1 in London has one, which was the first time I have seen one in person. The output of it goes into a Trinnov Ovation2 processor so that may be the best sounding analogue path there is...?

Filmhouse Screen 2 is a Panastereo handling the 35mm, into a Trinnov OV2>

Filmhouse 1, there's a Panastereo mag processor into a Trinnov OV2. 35mm in FH is handled by a CP650.

[David Ferguson]

Filmhouse Screen 2 is a Panastereo handling the 35mm, into a Trinnov OV2>

Filmhouse 1, there's a Panastereo mag processor into a Trinnov OV2. 35mm in FH is handled by a CP650.

Wow, I had no clue the Filmhouse had them and there was two so close to me... I shall have to try and "liberate" them - haha not likely! I can't actually remember the last time I saw a 70mm mag or 35mm optical there, I'll have to try and catch something at some point.

[Elia Orselli]

I found a CSP1200 on ebay, but still haven't tested it. Cineteca di Bologna has a CSP4600 for mag 35/70 screenings, but I think it hasn't been used for at least 5 years

[Tj Hopland]

In the USA Carmike Cinemas used them in the late 90's earlier 2000's new builds. The were not in the whole complex, maybe 1/3 of it. When the went D cinema they didn't typically pull them out. Those sites likely became AMC Classic so if you have one of those in your area that is still open watch for it to close and there to be some sort of auction. Its either scrappers or people that think the QSC USA 900's will be worth a lot of money bidding on that stuff so it often goes really cheap.