LISZTOMANIA (1975) - Sound Format??

[Jim Cassedy]

I've got a 35mm screening of LISZTOMANIA (1975) coming up in a couple of weeks.
LISZTOMANIA was the first movie released with a Dolby Stereo™️optical sound track.
The print comes from Warner Bros, through the Hollywood Film Company storage vaults.
> The print I have was made in 1994, from a negative dated 12/1980 although some reels
also have a 1993 date code printed through from an internegative.
> All but two of the reels, have their original leaders attached.
> But according to the leaders, this print has a MONO sound track.
> I have visually examined multiple spots on several reels, and I've been doing this long
enough that I can usually visually spot the differences between MONO and STEREO tracks.
All the spots I checked sure look MONO to me!

> I do recall running this (in MONO) back in the 70's, because the theater I was at didn't
have Dolby Stereo installed- - in fact, almost nobody did at that time. So I don't recall if
the print I ran was MONO or DOLBY STEREO.

So, what do you think? Perhaps there was a "Dual Inventory" of MONO & STEREO prints?

Today's Fun Fotos:

Most Reels Still Had Original Leaders Attached, As This Print-Through From Sound Negative Proves
LISZT_2.jpg


But (Un-Spliced) Leader Further Down Identifies The Print As MONO
LISZT_1.jpg

Also, during film inspection, it does have a "DOLBY STEREO- At Some Theaters" logo during the
end credit roll. Perhaps it should have said "DOLBY STEREO- On Some Prints" , maybe?

[Leo Enticknap]

Lisztomania was, if I remember correctly, the very first widespread release to use Dolby SVA release prints. However, it wasn't the Dolby four-channel phase matrix system with A-type NR that became the norm throughout the '80s (format 04), but a prototype that licensed a Sansui encoding system that, by the mid-1970s, was in limited use in consumer audio for "quadrophonic" phonograph records. The actual SVA prints were format 03. I've been told contradictory assertions as to if a CP200 will actually play 03 correctly or not if so configured. Again, if my memory is correct, Lisztomania was the only feature to receive a widespread release in this format.

Your leader with the MONO indication looks like the standard one that Rank Film Labs used in the 1980s and '90s to me (if so, it's not original to the movie, and suggests that new pix and sound internegatives were made decades later, from which this print was struck); and so whether or not it's true, I don't know. If the left and right SVA tracks look identical in several places that you've examined, my guess is that it likely is mono. Maybe 03 tracks were unlike 04 in that they could not be played through truly mono systems (single photocell in the optical pickup) without distortion or other loss of audio quality, hence the need for dual inventory prints?

[Steve Guttag]

With respect to Dolby Stereo:

The CP200 will absolutely play format 03. There is an Optical Surround control line that turned off on the CAT150.

The evolution of Dolby Stereo as a multi-channel format goes beyond the QS decoder (which, absolutely was used in the '70s on the various CAT116 cards, used in the SAx surround adapters for the CP100 and in the CP50). The original Dolby Stereo employed mere level shifting between Center and Left/Right (so, all three channels are playing at the same time, always but with a center emphasis for "mono" content) and the surrounds were independently handled by the QS decoder and supporting circuitry (including the delay line). The original Star Wars would have used this scheme too.

It wasn't until the CAT150, which had a CAT146 decoder with a sandwiched CAT116B (I think) for delay. This is the point where SVA had a steered audio that really tried to mimic a 4-channel system rather than two independent systems with one just sort of nudging the level relationships between the screen channels and an completely independent surround decoder. It could certainly be argued that an original print from the '70s will not play "properly" on a modern decoder as it won't sound like it did on its original release. However, when I've heard such movies, they have sounded fine (to me) without any exaggerated steering, including the original Star Wars.

As for how many Format 03 (and remember, there was no format numbers until the CP200 came out...it is the one and only processor where format numbers really mean anything as that is the form of selection...for all other processors, the number is an appended piece of data or used for shorthand, like on a CP650 API). I have heard that the original release of Apocalypse Now was supposed to be 03 on 35mm but I could never verify the claim (and this was in the EARLY '80s...much closer to its release.

I'm not the film historian that others are here but it has been my experience that the term "Dolby Stereo" really didn't come about until the very late-'70s and definitely by 1980 and I suspect coincided with the CAT150 being used. Prior to that, Dolby's noise reduction name of "Dolby System" was used. I would be happy to be proven wrong on that one but make sure you are referencing an original 1-sheet, credit scroll and not any reissues.

[Jim Cassedy]

I'm trying to re-find some info I originally read online over the weekend which said
something like both Leo & Steve hinted at- which is that a Dolby 'original' vintage
print of LISTZOMANIA would not really comparable with newer processors, which
sort of reinforces Leo's comment. I have an overabundance of 35mm for the next
couple of weeks, so I most probably won't have time to check it on screen before
the play date. We've got a CP-650 here for film. The leader says MONO, so at
this point, I'm planning on running it that way. "Problem Solved"

[David Kornfeld]

I have heard that the original release of Apocalypse Now was supposed to be 03 on 35mm but I could never verify the claim (and this was in the EARLY '80s...much closer to its release.

I can absolutely verify that all original 35mm prints of Apocalypse Now were Format 03; I ran a bunch of them & Walter Murch himself announced (& also told me personally the one time I met him) that the format could not have handled all the surround information from the original 70mm Format 43 mix & so the decision was made to release the movie in 35mm without any surround track at all.

So there you go.