Coca-Cola FREESTYLE Episode 2: The Present of Bad Soda

[Leo Enticknap]

In return, you get machines that require attention every so many minutes, because a cartridge or the ice has run empty... or simply because the thing has become an unhygienic mess.

Which would seem to me to be an argument for fast food places simply selling soda in cans or bottles, if these machines are that maintenance intensive. There again, I presume that the executives have done the math, and concluded that the dispensing machines still get the beverages to the customer for a lower unit cost than providing it pre-packaged in cans or bottles, if you're shifting over a given volume of units. By the same token, digital cinema projectors need a significant amount of maintenance, but they still work out cheaper than 35mm with projectionists.

I had a Coke from one of these machines about a month ago at a Five Guys. Not as nice as Mexican Coke, but there again neither is the regular stuff with high fructose corn syrup from cans. I didn't think it was as bad as some here have found, though.

[Frank Cox]

When Pepsi stopped selling premix I switched to selling bottles. In some ways it's not as good as selling by the cup (no choice of size, more expensive product) but it's definitely a faster service than pouring a drink so it speeds up the line quite a bit. It's also a lot cleaner both in not having the machine getting covered with gunk (and attracting ants in the summer) and I only have to mop the auditorium about ten percent of the time rather than after almost every show. So there's pluses and minuses but overall I'd say that I'm pretty happy with the bottles now that I've got used to the idea.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Broken self serve machines reminds me of McBroken ( https://mcbroken.com/ ) a web site that will tell you if the McDonalds ice cream machine near you is broken. The web site tries to place an online order for ice cream. If it is accepted, the machine is working. If not, it's not.

Then there's also the story of how the machines were hacked so people could do their own maintenance ( https://www.wired.com/story/they-hac...rted-cold-war/ ), or about adding a jumper that bypasses some safety features ( https://www.vice.com/en/article/3aqb...zation-process ).

[Marcel Birgelen]

McDonald's seems to have given rise to a whole slate of conspiracy theories regarding their often dysfunctional state of ice-cream machines.

Does Pepsi® have these type of self serve machines or just Coke® In cinemas?

Our brand new San Francisco Cineworld Regal Stonestown Galleria 12 Theatre opens in a few weeks with Pepsi®. Hope they pore the old way with a good mix.

Many movie people I have seen just bring their own old saved Coke® medium cups and fill with ice or a beverage for free. Seems to work ok in some machines. Lost drink cand counter sales.

Soon they will bring back the old 1950's warm pre popped popcorn machines in the lobby along with candy dispensers you put money into and there will no one behind the refreshment counter to help you.

Big USA cinema companies have already cut back on the help starting in the boxoffice ticket area and concession counters.

In the future you may even go to a cinema and find no one working at all, everything will be on auto mode. Good luck on finding a live manager.

Both the Pathe and Kinepolis chain in Europe have switched most of their concession stands to the "supermarket concept" years ago, where you fetch your concessions yourself from several stands and pay at a central cashier. Both chains already employed ticketing machines as primary means of dispensing tickets for those who didn't buy them on-line, but still provided some "human backup". I guess COVID-19 will see the complete elimination of the box office.

As for Pepsi: Yes, they do have similar machines. They're called Pepsi Spire machines. Last time I've used one of those was pre-COVID, as most self-serve machines around here have been closed ever since. But I don't remember an odd experience like with the Freestyle machines.

Which would seem to me to be an argument for fast food places simply selling soda in cans or bottles, if these machines are that maintenance intensive. There again, I presume that the executives have done the math, and concluded that the dispensing machines still get the beverages to the customer for a lower unit cost than providing it pre-packaged in cans or bottles, if you're shifting over a given volume of units. By the same token, digital cinema projectors need a significant amount of maintenance, but they still work out cheaper than 35mm with projectionists.

I had a Coke from one of these machines about a month ago at a Five Guys. Not as nice as Mexican Coke, but there again neither is the regular stuff with high fructose corn syrup from cans. I didn't think it was as bad as some here have found, though.

We can't really do the math without the numbers, but I think there is another factor to account for and that's the "Novelty Factor", which can be quantified as "opportunity cost". Those machines are still more rare than traditional soda fountains, so you're still selling a "premium product" or a "premium experience", at least that's what Coca-Cola is telling you.

Taste is obviously a personal matter, but you didn't taste the difference at all or you just didn't mind as much as I do? Maybe the difference between Freestyle is more obvious in non-HFC markets like Europe, but some of the reactions in this topic and the existence of the topic on the previous forum seems to indicate I'm not alone with this opinion.

The irony about Mexican Coke is that most of the Coke sold in Mexico, nowadays contains HFC instead of cane or beet sugar. But some bottlers still produce HFC-free bottles for export to the U.S. market as "Mexican Coke".

When Pepsi stopped selling premix I switched to selling bottles. In some ways it's not as good as selling by the cup (no choice of size, more expensive product) but it's definitely a faster service than pouring a drink so it speeds up the line quite a bit. It's also a lot cleaner both in not having the machine getting covered with gunk (and attracting ants in the summer) and I only have to mop the auditorium about ten percent of the time rather than after almost every show. So there's pluses and minuses but overall I'd say that I'm pretty happy with the bottles now that I've got used to the idea.

Many cinemas around here stopped selling cups primarily because the amount of spills inside the auditorium are apparently greatly reduced when selling stuff in bottles and cans. Besides a generally higher unit cost, the largest disadvantage is the amount of storage space you need for this, including cooled storage space. Plus, you need to account for the extra logistics of moving your individual packages around. I don't mind getting my drink in a bottle, because in many cases, this is a higher quality product than some badly maintained, badly adjusted soda fountain, but I do mind getting a cold drink. Many people in warmer climates will also demand a cup filled with ice to go, if you don't provide it in a cup already.

[Randy Stankey]

McDonald's seems to have given rise to a whole slate of conspiracy theories regarding their often dysfunctional state of ice-cream machines.

I don't think it's conspiracy at all.

Consider the caliber of your average McD employee. Young. First job. Inexperienced. Not a lot of technical ability. Overworked. Probably underpaid for what they do.
Repairing complicated machinery probably isn't in their skill set and, no doubt, it isn't what they were hired for.

Most of us have, at one point or another, have had the experience of being the one who is responsible for repairing complex machinery (projectors) in a place filled with overworked, inexperienced employees. (movie theater) How did that work out for you? Why would you expect any different from employees at McD trying to repair an ice cream maker?

After months of going to theaters on my route and finding broken, damaged and badly working projectors and other equipment, I finally broke the last straw and I went to Staples and bought a package of stick-on mailing labels. I used a laser printer to create stickers that said, "Do not remove. Disciplinary action will result." I placed them over all the access doors and calibration screws on all the equipment. People at the theaters pitched a fit and my Regional Manager called me up to ask why. I told him the reasons and I proposed it to him as a test to see if this would stop equipment being damaged. About a month later, emergency service calls due to messed up equipment dropped to almost zero. My boss started doing it, too, and service calls to his theaters also dropped through the floor. No long after, the Regional Manager e-mailed and told us to make it an official policy.

What McD has done is the electronic equivalent of putting stickers on access covers and disciplining people if the seals are broken.

One difference between a projector at a movie theater and an ice cream maker at McD is that projectors can't make customers sick if they aren't cleaned properly. Ice cream makers can.

Yes, I heard about the supposed conspiracy and read a few articles about it. From what I read, the majority of service calls on those ice cream makers come because somebody overfilled the reservoir on top of the machine and, when it goes into its sanitizing cycle, it can't get the liquid hot enough to sterilize. The solution is to take out some of the liquid until the level is below the "Max Fill" mark and restart the sanitizing cycle. If the cycle completes, it will remove the block.

As many as half the non-functional ice cream makers at McD don't work because inexperienced employees haven't been taught how to work the machine properly.

If it was up to me, I'd electrify those machines so that anybody who tries to tinker with them without authorization gets zapped!

[Dave Macaulay]

The Freestyle machines in cinemas I service definitely make ice. The old ice machines are off or have been removed. I haven't come across one that needs ice supplied or even has any way to do it. Not saying yours is like this, maybe they have cheaper ones without ice makers?
I'd prefer a fountain but they are often maladjusted ... strangely almost always for weaker drinks... and now they use freestylish mixing with bibs of sugary or diet base and flavor packs.

[Mike Blakesley]

I would be very surprised if McDonalds were to ever adopt them as they take their coca-cola very seriously!

I'm not 100% positive but I think I've seen Freestyle machines in the McD's in Billings.

The last encounter I had with Freestyle, I tried to get a Coke but the Coke button would not light up, which I suppose means it's out of Coke. I suppose only the "boss" has the key to change out the cartridges, too. I had a small amount of fun envisioning how a Coke sales executive would be blowing his gasket over that if he knew about it.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Well, if McDonald's does use Freestyle machines, they're seemingly afraid to be listed on the Coca Cola FreeStyle site.

If you do a quick Google for McDonald's and Freestyle you come across some Reddit topics, one noted that there were apparently Freestyle machines in some McDonald's locations in Canada, but McDonald's Canada seemingly had them removed, due to "issues". Also, there apparently was a lawsuit, because those machines aren't strictly ADA compliant...

McDonald's may not be the epitome of quality, but I've always considered it to be the industry-norm regarding consistency. Maybe that keeps them from adopting those machines en-masse. Also, McDonald's often operates on another scale than some of those other fast food joints. Compare your local McDonald's with your local Subway for example...

Last time before this encounter was at a Five Guys, the only drink choice it had left on the screen was "Sprite", but all the flavors were still available. The machine to the right was just being cleaned and refilled. I decided to switch my order to a milkshake back then. I guess, not a bad decision in hindsight.

The Freestyle machines in cinemas I service definitely make ice. The old ice machines are off or have been removed. I haven't come across one that needs ice supplied or even has any way to do it. Not saying yours is like this, maybe they have cheaper ones without ice makers?
I'd prefer a fountain but they are often maladjusted ... strangely almost always for weaker drinks... and now they use freestylish mixing with bibs of sugary or diet base and flavor packs.

I'm pretty sure they had two of those 9000 model machines. I don't know if there are big differences between the European machines or the U.S. machines, but apparently this model is available with and without ice-maker, according to the specs. I guess the 8000 model is more suitable for behind-the-counter operations, but I've never seen such a machine over here. Why they apparently choose a model without ice-maker is difficult to judge. Most Europeans don't like too much ice in their drinks, especially not in the colder months and they probably already had a professional ice maker.

[Leo Enticknap]

It looks like the ice maker is an option, that sits on top of the Coke machine and feeds ice into it by gravity:

ice_machine.png

Hoshizaki also make standalone ice makers for catering and fast food applications: I've seen them in several theaters I've worked at.

Presumably if you choose not to have one (or you do, but it's not on top of the Coke machine), there is a tank in the Coke machine that has to be filled up manually.

[Marcel Birgelen]

The machines looked identical to this one (those are most likely at a Five Guys location, judging from the tile work), but it definitely didn't have the large brushed-metal box on top of it.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

It’s not about the product. It’s about marketing and data gathering.

Those machines don’t just dispense soda pop. They also gather information about who drinks what, when and where they drink it.

Every time you touch one of those machines they record what you do and that data is sent back to the Mothership and used by the company for data mining.

Randy... Aside from which drink sells the most, there is absolutely no data it can gather beyond that. And any drink system, can gather that same data. The Freestyles can not tell between male and female or the age of the person filling his/her drink. Standard dispensing systems provide the same exact data by simple inventory means. Overall, Freestyles really slow down a drink line and I tend to avoid theaters that have them. Older folks seem to have trouble using them. There are no Freestyles in any McDonalds here.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess it depends a bit on whether or not you use the app or not. Apparently, the Freestyle App is limited to the American market for now. But if you linked your Facebook or Google profile to your app and you start ordering Freestyle drinks with that same app, they do get a load of personal data. Still, I wonder why I ever would want to order my drinks using a phone app when I'm standing right in front of the machine, to me that sounds backward.

[Kenneth Wuepper]

The current trends are such that if you can't do it or order it with your phone and then pay for it with plastic, it just doesn't matter.


Today a McDonald's here had a plastic machine crash disaster so they had to do only cash transactions. Several cars drove away without ordering anything because of this.

[Mike Blakesley]

I wonder why I ever would want to order my drinks using a phone app when I'm standing right in front of the machine, to me that sounds backward.

It's so you can get your drink without touching the filthy plastic touch screen.

I saw a big sign in a Five-Guys that said "Touch Free Pouring is Here!" But it didn't explain what that was or how it works... the Freestyle machines were the same touch-n-pour format as always with no signage about an app. It wasn't until later that I heard there was an app allowing you to touch-free pour.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess in COVID-19 times it makes some sense, but it will slow down operations even further. You need to start the app and then probably need to connect to the device either via RFID or by scanning some QR code.

When it comes down to hygiene, I'm not sure if any self-serve soda machine really fares that well. If you're using paper cups instead of hard containers like glasses, you probably have touch-buttons on the soda machine anyway. The "click-style" machines where you need to push your glass against a lever, don't work that well with paper and Styrofoam cups and even those machines have the tendency of becoming a mess when operated by anybody, including kids.