I guess Cinerama had to continue on some how...

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I like curved screens too but they are a struggle. I don't like the geometric distortions they bring. One thing I'm hoping for in the emissive screens is the ability to have a curved, distortion free (with respect to geometry) image.

Steve, I love curved screens as well, but emissive screens unfortunately won't correct for the distortion that happens where you end up sitting below or above the center line across the screen... Or off to either side either. An image on the screen is just that, no matter if it's direct view or projected, it is going to have the exact same issues.

As far as the curved gates go, lenses of that period, especially the Todd-AO lenses had enough depth of focus to deal with what amounted to a very slight curve, some gate runners had a six foot or more radius. They were meant for one thing and one thing only.. to stop the film popping foreword as the on and off heat hit it.

[Ed Gordon]

Cinerama was ridiculously complicated and very costly to shoot with in it's original format, and it slowed a production way down. They even shot the dialog live in six channels. However, they were in the process of developing a camera with a horizontal 12 perf (I believe) pull to replace the 3-camera, and 65mm versions. I actually have pictures of this movement that I've shown to various camera people in the Los Angeles area, and they are usually in disbelief at the photos. I think in the end, there were really too few stories that could have made use of that sort of film format. It was really intended for spectaculars and the like. Sure there have been a few movies that could have benefited, but would it really have been worth it? I really don't think so...

Mark, is this the system you are talking about:

Now it happens that the original specs for Ultra-Panavision (70mm with a 1.25 squeeze) yield the same aspect ratio as Cinerama (2.76), and 3-panel prints could be made from the negative, although this has never been done. (Imagine the chariot race from Ben-Hur projected this way!) Worse, Reisini also called a halt to all R&D, which stopped production of Waller's design of a 16-perf pull-across camera with a curved gate, and curved real element lens. Three-panel prints would be made from the single negative, forever solving the image kinking problem where the panels (each with its own vanishing point) met. Waller had never stopped trying to improve the process, and had always seen 3-panel as first generation technology. He would know none of the fate of his brainchild, however. He passed away in 1954, just days after receiving an Academy award for Cinerama.

From: https://www.widescreenmuseum.com/wid...imblepage8.htm

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Sounds like it. That movement was actually on Ebay about 20 years ago. I sent those pictures to Marty way back. I guess he never put them up, so here they are...

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Just cross-posting the video Tony shared to this most recent cinerama thread, a brief technical tour of the Pictureville Cinerama (Bradford, UK)

My lawyer will be contacting you for pirating my content.....

[Bobby Henderson]

Steve, I love curved screens as well, but emissive screens unfortunately won't correct for the distortion that happens where you end up sitting below or above the center line across the screen... Or off to either side either. An image on the screen is just that, no matter if it's direct view or projected, it is going to have the exact same issues.

One advantage a curved LED screen will have above a projected image on a deep curve screen: the LED screen will show the image entirely in focus (and not be cropping any of it either). That is not the case with digital projectors throwing images onto curved screens. Even if a projector's lens is custom made for the purpose there is a far worse problem: the location of the projector port in a modern theater. That's either well above the back row of a tall stadium seating riser or even higher above over a balcony. No amount of optical or digital keystone correction is going to fix that mess. The image is going to be clipped, have smile-shape distortion and only be partially in-focus even when seen from the best seat in the house. This situation is worse than not being able to watch a 15/70 IMAX Dome show from the sweet spot middle of the seating area.

In the old D-150 days the big cinema palaces of that era often had projection booths positioned where they could throw the image at the screen at a fairly level angle. IIRC, the National Twin in Times Square had a projection booth under the balcony to be able to throw a more level image.

[Ryan Gallagher]

One advantage a curved LED screen will have above a projected image on a deep curve screen: the LED screen will show the image entirely in focus (and not be cropping any of it either).

That definitely IS one advantage of LED direct view... perhaps when the whole industry moves that direction eventually we'll see a resurgence of deep curve cinemas? Industrial/AV world is already doing all kinds of curves with them for tradeshow/keynote stages. They can even manage a slight convex shape too, although concave is easier to make more extreme. Compound curves are still crazy-talk. (No one trusts those "flexible" units, and they are usually only flexible in one axis).

Forget the Sphere... "Cinema In the Round" is much cheaper/easier to implement with LED. "Surround Sight"? Haha. (Only half joking, I know there are some projects not too far from that concept out there).

One day maybe we'll see a DCI 8K remaster of "This is Cinerama" on a huge curved direct view complete with the smile box look. But if it doesn't have a some kind of curtain/braille i'm gonna protest. ;-)

[Bobby Henderson]

All sorts of things are possible with LED-based screens. A deep curve Cinerama type of display is very do-able. The biggest downside is the display costs are still very high, even for just a 2K resolution screen in a standard sized foot print. Venues like Sphere will never be a common sight. I'm not sure if the one in Vegas is profitable, even with the immense seat count. I have a difficult time imagining something like a 12-screen multiplex where all its screens are self-emitting.

Right now it's still far more cost-effective to install a projector and use a reflective screen. But the cinema industry is in a precarious situation. If we end up losing a great deal of first run screens and end up with a situation where only the biggest cities have a few first run screens it could kill the viability of things like digital projector product lines. If the cinema industry in the US ends up with only a few dozen showcase sites those locations may be stuck having to use LED screens. The "food chain" for cinema grade digital projectors could disappear. The projectors and replacement parts have to be produced at a certain level of scale.

One day maybe we'll see a DCI 8K remaster of "This is Cinerama" on a huge curved direct view complete with the smile box look. But if it doesn't have a some kind of curtain/braille i'm gonna protest. ;-)

Right now the movie industry can't seem to move above 4K. There may be cameras that can shoot 8K or even 12K now. But everything gets down-rezzed or cropped to 4K, if not 2K. It has been over 20 years since the first 4K digital intermediate was produced with Spiderman 2. The only thing Hollywood has been doing with the massive advances in computing technology since then is just make 2K and 4K faster and cheaper.

[Ed Gordon]

There has lately been some discussion of Dimension 150 on John Clancy's Youtube channel, "Movie Collector".

A few days ago as I type this, Steve and Michael Rowley visited as part of their tour of home cinemas across the country. Steve brought some historic newsreels for this show and also a D-150 (Dimension 150) lens. Steve is a big proponent of this 1960's projection solution which facilitated huge curved screens in cinemas that rivalled Cinerama. He explains the system and puts the lens in place on my Kinoton FP20 35mm projector to illustrate basically how it worked and what it did.

More will be coming on Dimension 150 in the future as Steve is building his own home cinema and aims to include a 118 degree D-150 curved screen so I intend to get up there and video that when it's ready.

Here is the latest video. The discussion of D 150 begins at the 3:25 in the video.