Barco/Cinionic is now S4 only (no more lamp based projectors)

[Steve Guttag]

Regarding post houses, if laser projectors end up being the only one available, post houses will want to use laser projectors to colour grade. In the end the content is going to be shown on a laser projector so at some point it won’t make sense to grade on a Xenon when the majority of cinemas have laser light source.

I wouldn't bet on that. If the color is wrong, the color is wrong and there will be a proper means for doing color grading. It will take a LONG time before all forms of xenon light sources are exhausted...particularly when you have a projector manufacturer coming out with new models.

I also question if one can color grade on the current RGB lasers. It isn't that they don't measure right, it is that they don't look right. It would be like getting a distorted piece of audio and thinking you can fix that with EQ.

I'm hoping that as laser light develops, the quality of the image comes up with it. Furthermore, don't discount that emissive/direct view LED based screens from coming into being at the theatrical level. Sure, they've had a set back but, ultimately, they are the future, not projection. When it becomes economically viable is another question.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I know a few Colorists that work in Hollywood and they HATE laser projectors. They say it plays games with the colors. So they actually have both at the facilities they work at.

[Marcel Birgelen]

We've looked extensively at the Barco S4 offerings and they simply are NO option for us. People doing post on those things simply won't accept the way those machines render colors. I think the problem isn't just speckle or metamerism caused by the highly monochromatic light sources, but goes even further, maybe they're artifacts of those things, but it's hard for me to judge what's causing it. Some surfaces even seem to suffer from banding-like artifacts on certain gradients, those are especially noticeable in clean, computer generated imagery. So, unless the entire world switches to Barco S4 machines, those machines will NEVER be able to be used as a reference.

With Barco also pulling out of the 6P market, that renders that avenue moot as well, as it would not make any sense to invest in such a very expensive machine any more, even if it would actually end up being accepted by colorists, which I very much doubt to be the case. Christie is another avenue, but I have a hard time getting friends with their hardware again to be honest. And how long will their xenon offerings last, with the rest of the market pulling out of it?

I think we'll probably need to largely let go of DCI compliant hardware in the not so distant future, as the market simply makes it unworkable for us. I expect Rec. 2020 to become the new norm anyway, a new blow to how cinematic content will eventually look, but I alone can't stop "progress" from happening. So, we're increasingly looking at replacing the projection screen with a LED-based screen, that unfortunately, won't be DCI compliant, but can still render colors the way they should look, in both "P3" and "2020"... Content that's being mastered isn't encrypted in any DCI-compliant way anyway and for the rest, we'll probably maintain a DCI-compliant projector and a movable screen while it lasts... Audio will become a new challenge, though...

With all those current developments I expect DCI compliancy to be a defunct concept within 5 years from now on, as the market seems to pull itself out of it, with fewer and fewer options to remain standard-compliant. Heck, everybody installing a laser machine right now is essentially giving DCI-compliancy the finger already. There will probably still be DCPs, but studios will eventually go to a fully on-line delivery model and probably lower their encryption requirements. Don't be surprised if they'll take over the playback part of things along the ride too, skipping the whole DCP ingestion process all the way. As long as studios keep releasing day and date on streaming services, DCI-compliant security chains are pretty much useless anyway...

[Marin Zorica]

I'm hoping that as laser light develops, the quality of the image comes up with it. Furthermore, don't discount that emissive/direct view LED based screens from coming into being at the theatrical level. Sure, they've had a set back but, ultimately, they are the future, not projection. When it becomes economically viable is another question.

I still have some costumersnwith S1 machines, from all of three brand plus even some kinoton or cinemeccanica barco clone. And always admired how picture is fine! In start all mamufaturers did out relly good optics, lens, prism etc.......with s2 that did ge t down a bit in quality, than s2 with smaller dmd plus way lower quality lenses and so on. I am just hopping that this all current laser cons in quality will not get to be next dci standard!

[Marcel Birgelen]

I still have some costumersnwith S1 machines, from all of three brand plus even some kinoton or cinemeccanica barco clone. And always admired how picture is fine! In start all mamufaturers did out relly good optics, lens, prism etc.......with s2 that did ge t down a bit in quality, than s2 with smaller dmd plus way lower quality lenses and so on. I am just hopping that this all current laser cons in quality will not get to be next dci standard!

Over in Asia, they're producing DCI projectors with two DLP chips and color-rotation schemes. That's where those standards are heading...

[Elia Orselli]

Over in Asia, they're producing DCI projectors with two DLP chips and color-rotation schemes

And now one of them is available in Europe

[Steve Guttag]

I still have some costumersnwith S1 machines, from all of three brand plus even some kinoton or cinemeccanica barco clone. And always admired how picture is fine! In start all mamufaturers did out relly good optics, lens, prism etc.......with s2 that did ge t down a bit in quality, than s2 with smaller dmd plus way lower quality lenses and so on. I am just hopping that this all current laser cons in quality will not get to be next dci standard!

I didn't find that S2 went down in quality. Quite the opposite. And, S1 had .98" chip projectors (e.g. Barco DP1200-DP2000, NEC 1600, Christie CP2000-M). The lenses remained mostly unchanged between S1 and S2 though there have been new models. The only step back in quality was the S2K projectors...the .69" chips where low contrast and relatively poor lens registration abounds.

For the most part S4 projectors are a net positive over prior projectors. The nature of laser projection and how it represent colors and speckle are the primary down sides. However, they are inherently better in contrast and are typically lower cost than xenon. Barco's S4 lens mounts are better than their S2 counterparts (or S1 which was often worse). I have not played with the SP2K line and it is built around the .69" chipset so everything will be extra magnified there. They are using the LP's light to not have a bad a contrast ratio as the typical S2K has (I believe SP2K is at 2000:1 rather than the 1650-1800:1 that is typical of an S2K projector). However, the SP4K-C starts at 2300:1, which is better than S1 or S2 and significantly better than S2's 4K projectors which also start out lower than 2000:1. We've done an SP4K-25C with a high contrast lens so it is up to 3000:1

That said, I couldn't imagine using one in a post-house. I don't have the eye of a color timer and I can clearly see that things don't look right. In one site, we have a mix of SP4K and DP4K and for color, the DP4K wins, without too much effort. For contrast, the SP4K wins. I do wish that Barco would, officially, offer the VHC lenses for the SP4K-C projectors. There is no reason to reserve it for the SP4K-27HC (which is an SP4K-40B with the VHC lens and apertures in the light path...so that is the light penalty you take...a 40,000 lumen is reduced to closer to 27,000 lumen. The smaller projectors don't generate the heat that the larger ones do. Then again, for most people, the higher contrast is lost on them because it comes at the dark-end. 14fL is still 14fL...it is just that the greys turn to black. To most people, they notice contrast improvements when whites get brighter.

[Carsten Kurz]

https://christieavenue.com/en/issue/22/xenon/

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Whenever a new technology begins to establish itself, there’s an understandable fear that its much-loved and well-understood predecessor will simply disappear. That more will be lost than is gained. And it’s reasonable to say that this is where Xenon projection illumination aficionados find themselves now, worried that they may be forced into making changes they have no wish to make.

It’s impossible to predict the future, but this we can say. Christie^® still loves Xenon, loves the way it looks and the engineering behind it. As far as Christie is concerned, Xenon’s light will be shining bright for a long time to come.

STILL A SOLID CHOICE

The unchallengeable facts are that Xenon projectors remain by far the most prevalent illumination technology used in cinemas worldwide and Christie has the most installed Xenon projectors in the cinema exhibition industry. Exhibitors like the image quality, audiences are familiar with it, and the creative side of the business still loves the way it looks. And that’s why Christie continues to make it.

RGB pure laser projection has its own advantages: higher contrast, wider color gamut, and lower maintenance. The huge promise this brash new contender has shown is astonishing. But at the same time, none of the things that made Xenon great have gone away. It’s still a solid choice.

AN EXTENDING LINE

Christie continues to invest in Xenon as it pushes forward with RGB pure laser. More than that, much of the processing technology developed for RGB is directly applicable to Xenon. And because the two technologies don’t exist in isolation, when one benefits, so does the other. Take Christie’s cinema projectors’ electronic brain, Christie CineLife+. It can do the same job for Xenon as it does for RGB pure laser projectors even though it was part of the laser development program – and does so in Christie’s new Xenon models.

The two technologies often co-exist – often within the same exhibitor’s portfolio. Take CGV, a subsidiary of CJ Group, a large multiplex cinema chain in South Korea. They’ve invested in a significant number of RGB models – but Xenon is still in many of the locations they operate across seven countries. Xenon still entertains, amazes, and attracts CGV audiences the way it always has done. The advent of RGB pure laser does not change this.

NOT GOING OUT


RGB pure laser might be the future, but that does not make Xenon the past. As with CGV, there is a natural overlap in the transition between the two technologies. Those who love the images Xenon illumination creates can settle back in their cinema seats with confidence the same way they always have. RGB pure laser’s popularity will eventually surpass Xenon, as the many benefits of this long-lasting and low-maintenance illumination will undoubtedly drive that format forward. But Xenon light, which has shone for cinema so brightly and for so long – is not going out anytime soon. Especially when offering both RGB pure laser and Xenon gives cinema exhibitors the ability to choose the best overall solution for each screen.

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[Steve Guttag]

What is odd is that it is described that laser is somehow lower maintenance. The only aspect the author could pull from on that would be that xenon requires lamp changes so yes, some cover has to be opened by a person, periodically. Laser systems, particularly as they stand today, are far more complex and, as such, will be more prone to failure/service due to failure. With xenon, you have a ballast, igniter and the lamp...those are what can fail on the xenon system. With laser you have a bazillion lasers (well, not quite that many but there are quite a few, even on more simple LP systems), multiple power supplies and drivers, LP wheels for LP and at least 2 and often more laser light sources...etc. There is definitely more to go wrong in the laser system.

And, least we forget...they FADE...it is not a buy and forget item. Most projectors are rating their laser life when the laser drops to 50% output...which would be great if 7fL (24cd/m^2) was an approved level. Depending on manufacturer, the laser life is between 20,000 - 30,000 hours. If you are a theatre that operates about 12-hours/day, that is 4380/hours a year. In about 5-years, you can be looking at well over $20K for new laser related repairs. Naturally, if you operate with fewer hours, particularly on the off-seasons, that time period gets stretched out. We are, typically, specifying our laser systems with at least 1-model higher projector and take advantage that laser projectors can output at the 20-30% level (Barco's S4 can go down to 20% output). This will go a long way to pushing that life span way out there. Heat is the enemy of the laser.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Steve, There is only one advantage that I see with Laser over Xenon and that is lower power consumption. Overall Laser is still not practical from a price to buy or maintenance standpoint. Keep in mind that manufacturers of switching Xenon supplies have also lowered the power consumption A LOT....

[Steve Guttag]

Really? Laser (particularly RGB lasers have the follow advantage over xenon:

• Not just lower power consumption, we are talking about 1/3 the power consumption. Even if you make the xenon ballast 100% efficient (gives off no heat), it STILL would be 2-3 times more power hungry based on lumen/watt.
• Outside exhaust is no longer a requirement, which lowers HVAC costs, allows for easier remote/pod mounting.
• Lower cooling requirements, which means less air movement which means less dirt. Less dirt means less maintenance, lower decay in light output less chance for contamination of the optical path.
• Lower cost to purchase. Yes, you read that correctly. An SP4K-C is cheaper than a DP4K-B projector, at least up to the 24,000 lumen range (I haven't compared the others). So, it is cheaper on day-1 and gets cheaper as you are not buying lamps or paying to light them.
• Laser has a lower etendu. As such, it is more efficient with light AND it has higher contrast, typically 30% higher contrast.
• Wider color gamut. Laser has a wider range of colors and can do (or nearly do) REC2020.
• The ability to vary the light output by format without causing harm to the light source. If you have a constant height screen, if you ramp you xenon up for Scope and back down for Flat, you'll have a flickery lamp when you are done. With laser, set the output for each format as desired (and it has a HUGE range...xenon has a comparatively small range).

Seriously, other than color representation and speckle, what are the downsides to laser? With each iteration those items get better too. It isn't like the color is god awful bad, it is just not right (and again, this is something that is being worked on...just like speckle).

When Christie came out with their CP4325, that brought RGB laser in at under $100K, it was obvious that the world was going that way. With the SP4K from Barco, RGB laser became cheaper than xenon, on day-1 for 4K projection.

NEC is still pricing lasers a bit high but they are also laser-phosphor and with an insane number of fans. They have also managed to not get the improvements in contrast that others have. They have some serious catching up to do.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Christie has a vested interest in xenon, whereas Barco has none such interests. Maybe they got a kickback from Osram, but obviously not enough to keep the technology around. Eventually, xenon will make place for something different, but I'm not entirely sure if laser projection will stick around. The more I think about it, I believe that "direct view" solutions will become the new standard in the next decade or so. A lot of innovation has taken place around LED walls in the last few years. The price has come down significantly over the years and the contrast, true blacks, extreme brightness of those screens simply can't be matched by any current projection technology.

And now one of them is available in Europe

Yeah, that GDC/Espedeo Supra-5000 thing, isn't it? I can't help it, but if I hear "Espedeo Supra-5000" I picture some fully automatic wannabe espresso machine rather than a wannabe DCI projector.

[Leo Enticknap]

There is definitely more to go wrong in the laser system.

But we (or at least I, at any rate) don't yet have any meaningful data to tell if the more complex laser illumination systems actually will go wrong any more than xenon ones will. By the same token, there is more to go wrong in a state-of-the-art BMW than there is in a Lada, but we all know which of those two cars is more reliable! I installed my first laser projector in 2015 (if you count the DP4K-30L I assisted with the installation of while still a projectionist at the Egyptian), and have, I would guess, installed around an average of 2-3 a month since starting at MiT in 2017. Let's say around 50. In that time I have dealt with five breakdowns of laser illumination systems. The first was a DP4K-17BLP which had a fan in a laser driver module go bad. The second was an NEC NC1040L, the light unit of which (NP-10LU01) has had green diode boards fail three times (that projector has also had other breakdowns unrelated to the lasers - it's been a real hangar queen). The third was an SP4K-27BHC that had a laser control board go bad.

Over the same time period, I've probably dealt with a failure of a xenon illumination system, probably around every 4-6 weeks; say, 5-10 a year. The most common problems are bulbs starting to flicker with hundreds of warranty hours remaining, Barco SPGs failing, and NEC triaxial adjustment assemblies seizing up and failing.

The fact that I deal with more xenon illumination faults than laser illumination faults could simply be a reflection of the fact that there are still more xenon projectors in the field, and that they're older and now more maintenance intensive. I'll be interested to find out how reliable laser projectors are after 5-10 years of use. But so far at any rate, I don't have any real reliability concerns with them.

And, least we forget...they FADE..

Again, so do xenon arc bulbs, especially the bigger ones. If a bulb isn't spec-ed to be able to provide about 30% more light than is needed to achieve 14ft-l in the biggest aspect ratio when newly installed, it won't be able to maintain that throughout the bulb's warranty hours.

[Carsten Kurz]

We'll see how this comes out when a laser illumination system (or a major part) needs to be replaced/repaired in 5 years from now. I doubt that this will come to a good end with NEC lasers sold to this day, as they are all different. For the SP4K, that will more likely be possible, as this seems to be a real sustained platform approach, as was the case with all series-2 xenon machines.

[Steve Guttag]

Big deal Leo...trying to figure the fade rate of xenon is child's play. You have between 500-3000 hours to figure what the fade will be. On Laser, you are trying to predict (with no real strong evidence) how the lasers will fade over 30,000 hours. You have to make the prediction before the projector is installed and have to live it it for the life of the installation. We use Ushio lamps, exclusively...we have not had the flicker problem you speak of. The only lamps that we constantly have issue with are Christie CDXL-20s and CDXL-18...in the CP2210, they cook (even with external exhaust). I've had maybe 3 Barco SPGs fail. I've a few Barco Ballasts give it up and they definitely have more issues in poorly powered theatres (old electricity). We probably should consider surge suppression on the 208/240 power (some of our towns have separate 3-phase Delta and single phase 120/240 coming into the theatre).