ICMP Subtitles

[Pedro Augusto]

Good afternoon.
I need to remove subtitles generated by the projector, but I don't know how to remove them from ICMP, can anyone help me?

Thanks

[Dave Macaulay]

The ICMP is unable to show closed captions as far as I know, they can only be shown on an external HI caption system. If captions are "burned in" on the image data there's no way to remove them. If you have an OCAP DCP, I don't know of a way to avoid them You need the CCAP version.
Please elaborate on what you're trying to do.

[Pedro Augusto]

The content doesn't come with recorded subtitles, just that the projector is generating the subtitles, if it was an IMS server I would have to disable the "subtitle engine" right? as we are with an ICMP I don't know how to disable this option.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Let's keep the distinction between subtitles (language translation) and captions (hearing impaired) clear, along with open (on screen) and closed (private display). As I recall, Barco series 2 projectors can display subtitles by using the Auxiliary Content Synchronization protocol (SMPTE ST 430-10) to get the location of the subtitles on the server and synchronize their display with playback. Back when series 3 was being developed, I heard that the projector was going to be "more dumb" and not generate subtitles, but I don't know how that finally turned out. If the projector can indeed render subtitles, I'd expect there would be a way to disable that so the user can use server rendered subtitles. But... I don't know.

[Leo Enticknap]

As far as I'm aware (from the Barco training school I did when the mk. I ICMP first came out), the Barco ICMP will render/burn in any timed text in a CPL that is designated as subtitles or OCAPs, and will not send any subtitle data to the projector, for rendering in the ICP.

On a Series 2 projector you can use the ICP and Enigma Control Program to disable subtitle rendering, by unchecking the "subtitles enabled" box, as so:

ICP_subtitles.png

But if my understanding is correct, that won't make any difference if the server/media block is a Barco ICMP, because the subtitles have been burned into the video before the video even gets to the ICP. If the DCP you are playing has subtitles and you don't want them, you need a version of the DCP that does not have subtitles.

As you point out, DolReMi gives you a lot more flexibility at the server end: you can delete the "Subtitle Engine" entry in the device manager altogether, which will disable the server from burning in subtitles, and within that entry, you can check a "treat CCAPs as subtitles" box, that will burn in closed captions for display on the screen (useful if, say, you want to do one open captioned screening a week, or on the fly in response to a customer request, and do not have a KDM for the OCAP version). But those options aren't there in the ICMP/ICMP+/ICMP-X.

[Pedro Augusto]

Got it, thank you all so much for your help

[Steve Guttag]

Alright Leo...prepare your forehead for a meeting of your palm.

But if my understanding is correct, that won't make any difference if the server/media block is a Barco ICMP, because the subtitles have been burned into the video before the video even gets to the ICP

Can you or ANYONE show a picture (not photoshopped or equivalent) that has an ICP AND and ICMP in a funtioning Barco S2/S3 projector?

The ICMP HAS to handle subtitles and captions on its own. It is both the server and the ICP. And, furthermore, since the ICP-D is considered a replacement for the ICP with the exception that the ICP-D cannot generate subtitles/captions for legacy (SDI) based servers (and the ICP-D is half of the ICMP-X), the server portion has to be where they are generated...just like for Doremi/Dolby and GDC.

Now, Barco has been pretty good about their ICP-D responding to most of the TI ICP program so they may have emulated the disable subtitle portion though I'd think it would be in the server software/set up or Barco merely thinks that you'll have it their way. I don't know for sure. I don't have enough of them in the field.

Via Communicator, one always had access to the ICP subtitle control (Diagnostics/CineCanvas).

[Leo Enticknap]

OK, being more accurate about it, the subtitles are burned in on the media block side of the ICMP, and never make it as far as the ICP side. With an ICMP in a Series 2 projector, there is no Cinecanvas tab in the diagnostics menu:

no_cinecanvas.png

It doesn't make any practical difference as far as Pedro is concerned. He has no ability to "switch off" timed text subtitles or CCAPs that the CPL determines should be projected.

Interestingly, this is what happens when I connect to the ICP side of an ICMP using the TI app and then try to open the page with the subtitle options in it:

controlapp_ICMP.png

This would suggest that Barco has completely disabled ICP-side subtitle rendering in their implementation of the ICP.

[Steve Guttag]

It also implies that a handy feature that Doremi (and I believe GDC) have of being able to generate Open Captions from Closed Captions isn't available either. I have a site near a school for the deaf and they ALWAYS have open caption shows available (they push the OCAP versions to all screens so they can change the performance, on the fly). When an OCAP version isn't available, they'll let the server "fake it." the caution is that ocap from ccap does not always place on the screen as well as proper ocap. Doremi also lets one, on a CPL by CPL basis move caption locations to avoid being cut off and such.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Interesting! In closed captions, Vposition is used only to determine the order of the lines of text. Hposition is not used at all, but Halign is. So, if the XML file is made just for closed captions, they could be anywhere on the screen and even overlapping if used as open captions of subtitles. However, I'd expect them to be positioned properly for screen display so they could use the same file for open or closed captions.

[Leo Enticknap]

Also, the actual text that is intended to be OCAPs can be different. The authors take the same approach as with language translation subtitles: boil it down to as few words as possible, for as little time as possible, to minimize the viewer's distraction from the visuals of the movie. CCAPs tend to be more verbose, because the viewer is in control of when and for how long he or she is looking at the screen or the reader.

[Steve Guttag]

Leo...care to explain how the viewer can control the duration of the ccap text? One of the issues with the captions is just how fast they are up and then down. Open captions also tend to locate themselves on the screen based on where they are associated (Left, Center, Right).

[Leo Enticknap]

By choosing to look up at the screen or down at the reader as he or she likes.