Real D and laser projectors

[Frank Cox]

The prism contamination thread brought up a question for me.

Do laser projectors work with "standard" Real D, i.e. the Real D system with the little Z-Screen thing? Or is there some other 3d system required to get 3d out of a laser?

[Carsten Kurz]

The same systems will work with laser projectors.

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

Real D is working with polarization.
So, I don't find any reason not to, regardless of the narrow wavelength of the primary colors (compared to Xenon).
Now, if you were set back some thousands more, and have a 6P laser projector, it doesn't make sense to go for polarized 3D.
If you were talking about the Sony 800 series, they offer(ed) different solutions.
So, in principle, RealD Z-screen is fine.

[Mike Blakesley]

The same systems will work with laser projectors.

Well, yes and no. The Dolby spinning disk 3-D system will not work with laser projectors.

[James Gardiner]

On this topic, I heard more recent polarizing lens 3D systems archived better (or less) crosstalk issues. Especially for use in brighter presentations such as 10fl.
Ghostbusting existed for a reason, i.e. crosstalk leakage on polarising 3D. And if going even brighter, the problem was even worse.

But I hear that 10fl with polarising lenses, no ghostbusting is viable these days.

Can anyone update us on these issues and how the systems have improved to achieve this?
I would have hunted this info down at CinemaCon but I don't have the disposable income or time these days.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Real-D is supported as most other polarized screen options with practically all DCI laser-based systems: 3P, 6P, phosphor and also the special case of the SP4K series, which technically don't fall in any of those ranges but probably come closest to "3P".

Still, in order to avoid issues with specle, I'd urge everybody to retain from using a silver or other high-gain screen in combination with laser. Color separation 3D, e.g. Dolby, is only supported for 2 x 3P and certain 6P systems, which are usually the absolute high-end of the spectrum and are targeted at the largest screens out there.

My personal favorite would be active shutter glasses. If done right, laser will give you sufficient light budget, which you then can use to deliver the BEST 3D currently on the market with superior left/right separation and no color fringing in the edges of your field of view.

I'm not sure what the situation is over there in the U.S. and Canada right now, but something like free single-use 3D glasses would not fly anymore over here, due to environmental laws.

[James Gardiner]

@Marcel, Yes I would very much agree. Active glasses is likely the best "flash" based 3D. Avatar2 at HFR triple flash was so much better than any flash based 3D I have ever seen. It was not as good as dual projector colour separation, but it was defiantly good enough to remove nearly all visual issues that made me cringe. I could still sometimes see the flash in fast movement, but I had to look for it.

The future of 3D is in the balance if you ask me. You can definitely make it look good now, but it's expensive, and most cinemas lean on the older 3.5fl crap that has given 3D such a bad name.
But then again, 3D is the only tech now that is predominantly only available in Cinema. domestic 3D TV's, not sure you can even get them anymore.

The biggest problem I see with active glasses and current technology projectors pushing 10fl in 3D is that the black levels don't deal with this very well. This is where colour differential and good dual laser projectors leave anything else behind.

The issue is, will Avarat 3 and 4 be enough to get exhibitors to move on installing a next-gen system that can do 10fl+. 3.5 is a disgrace and should no longer be used. Also, 3D in HFR should probably be mandated, especially for any flash-based 3D technologies.

After Avatar2 ended, it went back to under 4% of sessions in 3D for those movies that could offer it. Not worth it. (Avatar 2 was 54% of all sessions in 3D.)
This is off the top of my head/From memory, I was looking at doing a write up about it.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I agree that black levels on recent laser color separation (Dolby/Infitec) setups are superior, but those setups are horrendously expensive and really not achievable for the average independent exhibitor.

One problem though: Dolby/Infitec greatly increased the glass surface in their more recent glasses design targeted at laser systems. Those larger glasses do have issues though: severe color fringing at the edges. I had hoped that after 5+ years they would've fixed this issue, but the cinema glasses they offer today, still have this problem.

As for 3D demand, I also agree. Around here, after Avatar 2, the demand for 3D went back to pre-Avatar levels. Even though the 3D aspect of Mario was pretty heavily marketed around here and it may have been one of the few movies were 3D actually made some sense, the demand for the 3D shows was marginal.

[Mike Blakesley]

As for 3D demand, I also agree. Around here, after Avatar 2, the demand for 3D went back to pre-Avatar levels.

Yep. When Super Mario Bros. came out, our booker asked if we wanted to do 3-D and he said that Universal "really wanted" to get some 3-D shows, but I said no because we decided long ago that it was pointless to use 3-D on kids movies....because kids won't wear the glasses and in fact, will wreck them. $15 bucks down the drain.

In researching and making decisions about our projection future around here, I've pretty much decided that when we do go to laser, we will forego 3-D because we'd have to buy a whole new system (and a silver screen) for it since Dolby wouldn't work, and really the only more or less "guaranteed" big titles are those two Avatar movies. The nice thing is we can always add 3-D later on if things change.

[Marcel Birgelen]

In researching and making decisions about our projection future around here, I've pretty much decided that when we do go to laser, we will forego 3-D because we'd have to buy a whole new system (and a silver screen) for it since Dolby wouldn't work, and really the only more or less "guaranteed" big titles are those two Avatar movies. The nice thing is we can always add 3-D later on if things change.

If you eventually would go the 3D route, I'd encourage you to take a look at the XPand shutter glasses system (or any other shutter glasses system out there). You don't have to replace your screen, there is no polarizer involved in front of the lens and their newest glasses are dishwasher safe, so you could probably even reuse your existing dishwasher you keep around for Dolby 3D.

I wouldn't want to impair the picture quality for just a handful of 3D shows by installing a silver screen. The speckle on a normal low-gain white screen of a Barco SP4K is close to invisible, even without countermeasures like screen shakers. Their native, built-in, speckle countermeasures are pretty effective. But it becomes clearly visible once again, on a silver screen. Speckle looks like a bunch of rainbow colored small little dots all over the screen, that "dance" over the screen once you start moving your head. I myself find it very distracting. If you've ever witnessed an "IMAX with Lasers" setup, you know what I mean.

[Carsten Kurz]

Well, yes and no. The Dolby spinning disk 3-D system will not work with laser projectors.

Frank was asking about RealD systems. They never offered the Dolby or other wavelength separation systems.

[Mike Blakesley]

I know, but you made a very general statement that could be taken on its own to mean "any" 3-D systems, so that's why I responded.