AUDIO for WICKED - STRANGE COMPRESSION PROBLEM?

[Peter Foyster]

Of all the film Distributors reps in Australia, by far the least helpful is Universal.
With all film distributors except Universal I am able to get KDMs a few days in advance of the screening to test the audio and check the credit offset (which is incorrect more times than I care to think about).
Being a small outdoor cinema in the middle of the forest, I am able to quickly go through the DCP without prying eyes or ears. The correct credit offset is vital to ensure that people who get up to leave right on the credits are not put at risk of tripping in the dark
Universal will not entertain any deviation from their policy of KDMs being open only 24 hours before the screening. This would mean that I would have to run it immediately after the previous night’s movie, with people no doubt staying to check it out. This, of course, is not the appropriate time to be testing but it leaves me no alternative other than hoping for the best on the night of the screening.
I wonder if I would have any comeback on the distributor if someone was injured due to the lights not coming up at the first instance of credits onscreen. I have told them so many times about the risk but they will not budge.
If this was industry wide I could understand but all the major distributors and smaller independents are quite happy to oblige me.
The audio should hopefully be OK as I run the centre channel at a slightly higher level to ensure that vocals can be clearly heard in the outdoor environment.
It would be extremely helpful if someone can provide me with the correct credit offset, including fade to black or rolling credits (if any).

[Peter Foyster]

I am, of course, referring to WICKED

[Frank Cox]

It sounds like you have a bigger issue to deal with than the credit offset for Wicked.

What happens if your movie stops in the middle for any reason? Does that leave your audience in 100% dark? If so, then you should probably look into getting some kind of ambience lighting that stays on throughout the show. Fire codes and such require a minimum level of lighting and as you say, complete dark isn't safe for your customers.

My auditorium lights turn down low while the movie is on but never go completely off while there are customers here.

[Ryan Gallagher]

I am, of course, referring to WICKED

Many still post the relevant film information in the appropriate thread, here is the Wicked post:
https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...67-wicked-2024

It probably came directly off the DCP label, but since no one has chimed in to say the offsets are incorrect, you can probably assume accuracy?

As for your walkout lighting relying on crawl in an outdoor setting. I would suggest tacking on a custom venue logo DCP slide with a pause at the end of every film. Or any other slide that throws enough light for people to see? But Frank is right about general safety if the projector is not operating. If there are a bunch of trees around maybe some festoon or Christmas lights that can be controlled via the "booth"? After all, not all films have adequate crawl. I show plenty with a single "The End" card. ;-)

This walk-out lighting situation would alleviate most of your "need" to preview before audience is around. But it sounds like staying late enough for the audience to depart and then preview what you need to preview for the next day is the best compromise.

[Peter Foyster]

Thanks for your input.

There is no reliance, as such, on the crawl. I simply like to ensure the best presentation possible. As soon as the first credit hits the screen, the automation brings the lights up to pre-show level, When the 'crawl' (I prefer the term 'rolling credits") starts, or it fades to black, the house lights go to full brightness. If neither of these events occur during the credits, the house lights fade up to full after one minute.

Not only is there a risk to patrons if the first cue is wrong, it is also a bad look from a presentation point of view.

As far as ambience lighting is concerned, there is often the moon to provide that, but an outdoor situation does not lend itself to such things. The previous owner, who built the cinema, told me of an inspector's insistence on aisle lighting but was quickly put in his place when it was explained how that was impractical, if not impossible, in an outdoor venue.

I have personally found that any sort of ambient lighting in an indoor cinema during a screening to be annoyingly distracting.

In any event, should the projector light fail, I can have the lights up in seconds, remotely from the box office. There are emergency lights at the exits which will stay on in the event of a total power failure.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Thanks for your input.

There is no reliance, as such, on the crawl. I simply like to ensure the best presentation possible.

Copy. Sorry I mis-read your comments to mean you didn't have audience lighting at all. I realize now you just mean you'd prefer to have what lights you do have come up some with credits per usual.

These days, in an outdoor "unusual" situation, it would not shock me if smart people turn on the flashlight on their phones were there to be inadequate lighting during walkout. But that is equally distracting to folks that intentionally stay to watch the credits.

We have a pretty dangerous balcony, but even so, in festival mode, they will often insist on house lights remaining out during credits (only minimal aisle lights on), especially if there is bonus content hidden somewhere in it. That alone is a good reason to ALWAYS preview credits, the published times might be correct, but there may be other presentation reasons why the house lights should not come up yet.

[Peter Foyster]

Thanks Ryan,

I concur with your last statement.

Of course, that brings me back to the ridiculous stance by Universal who clearly don't care about patron safety or good presentation.

They don't even try to justify their policy. Just that they treat all outdoor cinemas the same. Now that is a stupid policy!

[Frank Cox]

You can (usually) find out if there's anything special included in the credits for most movies here: https://aftercredits.com/

[Peter Foyster]

The KDM for WICKED has just arrived from MPS in London, which contains the following information:

Run Time	First Frame End Credits	First Frame Moving Credits
02:39:59	02:33:46	02:33:46

This is exactly what I am talking about, as the providers in the UK clearly have their own subjective view on where the credits commence. I have written back to them, providing the information in the link above, which is:

Total Run Time: 02:39:59
Credits Start: 02:30:43
Crawl Start: 02:33:15

The difference is quite staggering and could prove dangerous, not to mention embarrassing, if I use the wrong offset times.

I won't hold my breath waiting for a satisfactory resolution.

[Frank Cox]

Those numbers suggest to me that there is a 30 second additional logo on the dcp you have that's not present on the US version of the movie.

And again, if it's dangerous to use the wrong credit offset then you really do need better lighting in your venue while the movie is running.

[Antti Näyhä]

For those who like to adjust the Center vs. Left+Right balance in acoustically difficult rooms and/or cases of difficult content: Do you prefer boosting Center or lowering Left+Right, or even a bit of both?

In one venue, I've gone so far as to create a separate +6 dB Center boost preset in their CP950's. This was done as a quick fix for one particularly nasty piece of content, but the projectionist tells me that it has proved useful since then in several cases. We're a subtitling country, so people are used to subtitles, and it's very easy to get complaints about dialogue intelligibility when playing English-language classics without subtitles.

In one of these rooms, the Center channel's output level was already set to +5.3 dB after calibration, so in my "turbo boost" preset it's up to +11.3 dB. Such a high number feels a bit scary to me – I haven't witnessed any distortion, but I've started wondering whether it would be safer to drop Left+Right levels instead.

[Marco Giustini]

I agree with the 3dB Steve mentioned - plus paying attention to midrange etc.

However, 6dB or 11dB doesn't feel right to me. I appreciate that when the room/sound system are bad, you have to compromise but 6dB is a lot! I'd look at the tone of the channel a bit more, trying to make them sounding right. If your centre channel sounds muffled, turning it up to 11 won't help a lot!

[Antti Näyhä]

Agreed – the 6 dB turbo boost preset was never meant for any sort of general use, so I'm going to create a new, more subtle center boost preset for them.

But would you rather boost Center by 3 dB or drop Left+Right by 3 dB? Or perhaps even something like Center +1.5 dB and Left+Right –1.5dB?