Barco 23b - light engine

[Allan Barnes]

IF my Barco 23B Light Engine is dead. ALL RED PICTURE. What is this going to cost me to repair it or buy new?

I am waiting to find out if it is a bad LIGHT FILE or a BAD ENGINE.

Is the cost going to be an ARM or LEG or BOTH?

[Leo Enticknap]

As a dealer we're not allowed to quote figures publicly; but I'm afraid that it is the priciest part in the projector to replace, and by a big margin. The figure will be significantly higher for the 4K light engine than the 2K. A return/exchange is cheaper than buying a new one. For a while during the Cinionic days they wouldn't ship an advance replacement, meaning that for the return/exchange price, you had to ship the bad one to Belgium and then wait 6-12 weeks to get it back again. However, the last time I swapped a light engine, they had gone back to the system whereby you received the refurbished one, installed it, and shipped your bad one back to them in the packaging it came in. Hopefully this is still the case.

The bottom line is that your best bet is to contact your local dealer for a quote and details of the logistics of the return/exchange deal.

[Carsten Kurz]

A all red picture is not likely to be caused by a dead light engine. Didn't you just replace your ICMP in that machine, or is that another one?

[Steve Guttag]

All red can be ICP (or like board) or a bad formatter and its contacts to the DMD itself.

[Marco Giustini]

Play with test patterns, the calibration ones. Do you have primary colours? Do you always have red even when black is selected?
If you have an ICP, try tapping on the faceplate itself with your finger, do you see any changes?

It could be a few things - if it's the engine yes, probably an arm OR a leg won't be enough ? Barco used to provide repair/exchange engines, but it wasn't always available. I don't know, I was just an engineer ?

[Allan Barnes]

THANK YOU FOR THE ADVICE. This is a 2K Barco 23B and YES I just installed a used ICMP-X in it. I am doing a Diagnostic Report within the hour. It is strange that I have a GREEN TAIL LIGHT and NO ERRORS. I have seen this RED SCREEN before on a Barco 2000, something had happened to the COLOR FILE and it was a five minute fix (after I stopped screaming at the machine)

Do you always have RED even when black is selected? The BARCO INTERNAL GREEN TEST FOCUS SCREEN APPEARS AS A RED TEST FOCUS SCREEN. Let me check again on the BLACK but I think it is only BLACK.

[Dave Macaulay]

When I tested it, I only had a few minutes as the power circuit was incapable of powering the lamp for long (unbeknownst to me, testing it in a warehouse with temporary power). White was red. Red was red. Blue and Green were black. I didn't get to the uncorrected patterns before the circuit breaker ended the testing.

[Leo Enticknap]

White was red. Red was red. Blue and Green were black

That would suggest that only the red formatter is operational, and that blue and green are not working.

If the fault presented immediately after you installed the ICMP, that would seem to suggest that it's not a light engine fault. I wonder if the ICP side of the ICMP contains the formatter firmware for a different light engine (especially if this is a used ICMP), which is causing it to be unable to drive the blue and green formatters? Maybe try reflashing the ICMP software/firmware package, and if that doesn't get you any further forward, the projector's package as well?

If still no luck, if it were me, I would put its predecessor ICP back in (assuming that it was working OK when removed) and try the test patterns again. If all three colors are good, the fault is in the ICMP.

[Marcel Birgelen]

The fact that no satellite errors are being logged points more towards the ICMP than formatter issues. It would also be an unlucky event to loose two formatters at once or in a very short interval.

[Leo Enticknap]

I was reminded of Meadow's Law (once is insignificant, twice is suspicious, three times is murder) on that score, too. When a light engine fails, it's almost always just one of the formatters; not two or all three at once.

[Marco Giustini]

Yes, two colours missing sounds weird.

The MCGD test patterns should be "generated" on the formatters themselves - though I've seen faulty ICPs affecting those as well. If you don'g get anything with Green and Blue when selecting the MCGD patterns, that might point at the engine but as others say, I'd also expect some errors on the formatters. Weird.

And no, MCGD patterns bypass all the files so that shouldn't be your problem - then who knows. Sometimes cinema projectors seem to have their own life! ?

IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED and you feel comfortable, you could swap the red with green and/or blue and see what you get when you run the RED test pattern: if it's Green and/or Blue, then the engine is fine. If it's still nothing, then the engine is bad OR there is a connection issue to the engine.

Please note the "IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED", those machines are delicate and the connectors to the engine are "more than fragile". I'd recommend calling an engineer to do all the tests, they will be able to give you a more definite diagnosis.

[Leo Enticknap]

Seconded. The three multi-pin connectors (for each color) that form the data connection from the formatters to the backplane are fragile, and if you break one, I'm not sure that you can order those cables separately: you may need a new light engine. Likewise, if you damage the receptacle on the backplane, it's game over for the backplane (which is a relatively cheap part, but replacing it is a long and complex procedure). Two of the connectors are physically identical, and it is possible to connect them to the backplane the wrong way round. There should be a zip tie around one of the cables, indicating that it goes in the no. 1 (top) receptacle. Removing them is not rocket science, but it does require extreme care. As Marco advises, this test should ideally be done by a trained Barco tech.

[Allan Barnes]

I carefully did swap the red cables with green........... no change just the same RED stupid test pattern. So it is dead.

BARCO SAYS NO NEW LIGHT ENGINES AVAILABLE FOR SALE. AND USED/REBUILT LIGHT ENGINE WARRANTY ONLY 6 MONTH WARRANTY.

[Leo Enticknap]

I'm not surprised. Barco are aggressively trying to nudge the retirement of Series 2 and 3 (basically, Series 2 but with a laser phosphor light source) projectors, primarily by jacking up the price of one-time parts purchases for out-of-warranty units, but also with long wait times for parts if your projector isn't covered by a warranty or a VPF deal. Another emerging issue is the non-availability of TI ICPs, meaning that if you have an IMB that won't work with an ICP-D (e.g. Dolby cat745) and your ICP dies, then unless you can find a used one somewhere, you're snookered. They want you to upgrade to Series 4.

[Marco Giustini]

If i were in your situation - where the engine has NO USE whatsoever (not even for a repair/exchange), I'd be curious to fiddle with the RED formatter. Someone says most issues are only caused by bad contacts. Obviously those are very critical parts which cannot be disassembled unless you have a clean room. But if the engine is gone, I think you can remove the formatter, clean the contacts and put it back without removing the DMD.

In theory the formatter has a specific torque setting.

Of course there is a chance to make it worse and - potentially - to cause further damage down the line to the rest of the projector, who knows.

It's very frustrating that the manufacturer does not offer anything better than that to be fair. It's basically asking you to dispose of the projector, only for a matter of profits, as usual. It should be forbidden. Or - in other words: the manufacturer prefers to sell a new machine? Then they take 100% care of properly recycling the old projector down to the last screw.