Looking to sell old Barco projectors and replace with more modern and efficient ones

[Leo Enticknap]

The potential costs of running an older projector (any), as Leo pointed out, are, really that light engine.

It's the single biggest one by a large margin, but there are other parts that would cost in the mid to high four figures to replace: the ICP, CCB, lens holder, and reflector are other examples. Lamp power supply modules are also in the low to mid four figures. One thing to keep in mind is that Barco (in line with the other two DCI projector manufacturers: the following is a criticism of the industry in general, not Barco in particular) has seriously hiked the price of one-time parts purchases for out of warranty projectors, trying to push end users into keeping their projectors in warranty until they replace them completely. If a projector lasts 15 years in service after the initial warranty expires without needing any big ticket part replacements, they lose big time if you haven't been extending the warranty every year. If you extend that warranty for the full decade that they'll let you and only ever need to claim on it for a fan that would have cost $150 as a one-time purchase (for example), they win big time. So the one-time price of big ticket parts has been hiked to increase the risk you take if you don't extend the warranty.

There are very few parts on a light engine that they allow mere parts replacement (light pipe is one that comes to mind)

The dowser assembly is the only other one that I can think of.

Good point on laser conversion being an option. That is definitely available for the B series projectors (I've done a few); not sure about S (I haven't). And also, if you converted a 19B, you would have a spare xenon power supply module to support the others with afterwards.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile buying a new projector for one screen and keep the old one as a spare.

Or buy a used but functional projector that has been retired for a laser upgrade, and keep it as a parts donor machine. One of my sites did that during the covid shutdown (though the used projector was purchased from a site that closed totally, not upgraded). We've needed the lens holder and CCB out of it since, with the result that the theater has saved several thousand compared to buying those two parts from Barco. The TI ICP would be on borrowed time due to the soldered on battery, but the other parts should be usable indefinitely.

If your Doremi IMB goes down, I'd replace it with a Dolby IMS-3000 for around 8K. If the ICP goes down, you can get an ICP-D from Barco for around 7K.

Given that these are Barco projectors, if the IMB or ICP fails, I would suggest considering an ICMP-X as the replacement, as you effectively get both boards for the price of one. If you replace either and then the other fails shortly afterwards, you will be out almost double the money compared to if you bought an ICMP-X when the first took a dump.

And how about that Doremi ShowVault-3 with dead power supplies?

If you mean the power supply modules in the rack server, these are almost certainly generic server parts that you could buy from third parties. I can't give you the model number off the top of my head, but if you pull one out, look on the label, and then Google the model number, you will very likely find them available for in the ballpark of a couple of hundred bucks. I've done this frequently for DSS and older GDC servers. As long as the IMB hasn't lost its certificate (I'm hoping that the batteries in them have all been replaced on schedule), that should get that screen back up.

[Cody Kish]

I'll check again once the owners find the power supply, they took it out before I started working there to try to replace it or have it fixed at a place in town. But I think that that place and the owners looked and couldn't find a replacement, but maybe one has popped up on eBay.
And I've only been there about 4 1/2 months, so I have no idea about the batteries. How often are they meant to be replaced? And is there anything that can be done if it lost the certificate?

[Elia Orselli]

Good point on laser conversion being an option. That is definitely available for the B series projectors (I've done a few); not sure about S (I haven't).

LLU for S projectors are available and they work well. The only issue is that they aren't fully software integrated as C and B versions (when on latest software and with the internal lan/debug cable connected), but it's not an issue: instead a "laser power" control in communicator, you'll still control it as a lamp.

And I've only been there about 4 1/2 months, so I have no idea about the batteries. How often are they meant to be replaced? And is there anything that can be done if it lost the certificate?

Dolby recommends replacing ShowVault IMB battery every 4 years. You can check the battery voltage in detailed report. If certificates are lost you have to replace the server, as it's EOS and there isn't a recertification service.

PSU models are listed there: https://kb.dolby.com/CinemaKnowledge...-ShowVault-IMB

[Steve Guttag]

The Eprad Nano-Host, to work, needs Eprad eCNA automations. It is an accessory for them (only one Nano Host per complex is needed). It feeds the "flags" to the individual automations to denote, first show of the day, last show of the day, ticket sold (by performance).

So, on the Nano Host, you'll get data like this:

image.png
The "Sold" column is a Boolean. So, line 8, there are ticket(s) sold (we don't know, nor care how many, as far as lighting the lamp goes) and it is for the 4:20pm performance in theatre number 2

Meanwhile, over on theatre 2's automation, this the data we have:

image.png

You can see that the 3rd performance already has a ticket sold but is 74-minutes before the first show (Cyan block in on show which is flagged as the first show of the day)...the Control Data above shows where we are on the shows as well as the validity of the data (Host is up, POS is giving good data.

With this information, the automation (Eprad eCNA5 or eCNA10) can have macros that have opening procedures (wake equipment up), closing procedures (shut the theatre down...including if there are no tickets for the last show, the system, in this case, will wait a set time into the feature to declare a no-show and then shut the system down rather than even wasting electricity of running to an empty theatre).

It is really up to the installer as to how the information is handled. Originally, we had the lamps strike and then turn off if nobody showed. Then we switched only striking the lamps if a ticket was sold.

We also have the automation clock and timers that ensure servers stay on for typical content-transfer days. If we have a site with Q-SYS, that can monitor (some) server transfer information, we can leverage that to ensure that the equipment is left on just long enough to allow transfers.

Again, when you have 12-screens, the amount of electricity savings (as well as reduced costs on lamps and labor for lamp changes) it can add up fast. So, far, there have been no downsides. It is goofy and limited on its ability to get schedules (must be in the BLOAD format and it really wants to "pull" schedules rather than have them pushed to it. It does take some time to develop the macros that work for your site so that all of the various contingencies are handled in the desired manner. But it is incredibly solid and the automation reliability is impeccable.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Yeah, it's really hard to decide. Doremi doesn't support or make supplies for them anymore and Film-Tech quoted us $13000 to replace it.
The used one of that same unsupported model that I found is $3000.

The PSUs for the DCP2K came from Zippy and are still available at many special retailers. Zippy is a Taiwanese OEM specialising in PSU solutions for servers. You need to check the original PSUs for the correct wattage. It's no problem to replace those PSUs with stronger PSUs than their original, but it will also not yield you anything extra.

I'm not sure who provided the PSUs for the ShowVault machines, those seem to be another format than those of the original DCP2K series. It still could be Zippy, but they don't feature those PSUs in their current catalog. You can still drop them a line and ask if they have anything that's still compatible available. Still, you could also buy a DCP2K from Ebay and convert it into a ShowVault via the provided procedures.

Also, "donor machine" from Ebay, which should have two functioning PSUs, should be available for anywhere between $500 and $1000.

[Allan Barnes]

When you said OLDER BARCO PROJECTOR,,,, I was thinking Barco 1500 or 2000. I might be getting old.

[Cody Kish]

Oh wow, okay! I'll definitely be looking into that more very soon. Having that theater back up would be a huge deal for us, so I'll do anything I can to get it going somewhat cheaply
And I was also thinking, and I won't try this until a closed day obviously, but the other 3 Doremis are model ShowVault-4, I wonder if they have the same power supplies
I think both supplies are working in all 3 of those, so I COULD steal one, then 2 of the 4 theaters just wouldn't have a redundant supply

[Cody Kish]

I'm gonna make a new topic for this because the conversation has changed completely, but I think I found a temporary power supply solution.

https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...ult-3-dcp-2000

[James Gardiner]

As a past Integrator and now cinema owner, with a strong IT side (As it's my background).
The problem is. currently, with 30% down in attendance on average around the world. (Gross not so down, as ticket prices have gone up considerably, but so has running costs) Like in my country, independents are simply not purchasing new projectors. The core reason for this, is the same as exposed here. In the current environment, there is a low chance the cinemas will be still operating in 5+ years. So why would you take on a 10+ year investment. Completely understandable why cinemas are holding off as long as possible, hoping things will return to pre-pandemic levels. (unlikely, unfortunately)
(Local Aust data, we are ahead by about 4% on last year same week. Hope we get to 5%, but nowhere near the 15% expected/hoped. But then again, +5% in one year, before covid would have been amazing for a 1 year gain. I would highly advise operators to treat this year Gross as the new normal, and take actions on business expectations based on this year's turnover.)
With many cinemas running 13+ year equipment. We have a lot of faults, engineers running around trying to get unsupported kit working again. etc. It's not good.

Technically, with a 70% saving on power on newer generation projectors. Technically, if you expect to be open for 10+ years, commercially you should have already upgraded. AS, energy saving alone, price of projector is recovered over 5-7 years. You are actually loosing money NOT TO UPGRADE, over the long term. Especially as power is expected to skyrocket due to AI silliness.

This is a very difficult issue. Unlike typical computer hardware. Old kit can be decommissioned, sit on the shelf for a few years and be sold when needed. When an old DCI projector is decommissioned. it needs to be placed into operation again soon after or you are likely to see them disarm, making them junk. You are not going to see cinema engineers pick up a bunch of old replaced projectors and have the facilities to keep them all plugged in and functional until they find a new home. Keeping them alive takes money. (Space and power)
The facts are, waiting for a projector to fail, then trying to fix it or replace it, is only becoming more problematic. If you are a multiscreen location and can still operate with a screen down. ok, but typical smaller 3-4 screen locations loose a lot of capability for a long period when this happens. It is an issue worth avoiding.

In my region, I see this like the period of the film-to-digital transition, but with no VPF. Series 2 projectors (like film) is reaching EOL. You will have to upgrade in the next 2 years. Otherwise, expect rise in faults and lack of spares will finish you anyway. Closing screens is an option, but then you are paying for a large area that is no longer in use, rates, and other government costs on that space that has no return. This is especially bad in Australia, with some of the highest land prices in the world. So high, that it's getting like what happened to close 90% of all drive-ins. You simply cannot get the return on the land needed to devote it to a drive-in. Typically having to be sold into re-development into shops etc that will get the return per square meter required.

I dread the next few years as I expect these independents with old projectors, still hanging on, will eventually close as when the projectors fail, and they are not financially in a position to replace them.
With the Trump-slump, and the obvious AI-bubble being clearly in our sights and having to travel through those treacherous lands in the coming years. It will be difficult. So much so, I understand some major projector makers are considering purchase deals to help with these conditions. Don't really want to say more than that. But I hope they can get them off the ground.


The only upside here is that I hope restrictive business models used in this industry are dismantled once the pain really starts to hit with shutdowns rising and distributors coming to the conclusion, no/less-cinemas=no/less-distributors (jobs/profits). The golden goose may lose quite a few feathers. Instead of kicking it to make more golden eggs fall out. They will support it to make sure it survives. I already see a trend towards this behaviour now, but every time they think its going well, they revert to pre-pandemic behaviour. (Intrenched into the staff, but I hope they can learn over the next few years)

[Leo Enticknap]

I agree with your underlying concerns, though I believe that applied to the situation in the US at least, your conclusions are a little over pessimistic. From the perspective of someone who works for a major US DCI equipment dealer, we had an unusually quiet start to the year, but since August I've been totally booked up doing major installs (involving new projector sales) in quick succession, most of them for independent, nonprofit, and higher education customers. A big part of the reason, I suspect, is that the tariff situation was volatile and unpredictable during the early part of the year, but customers contemplating major equipment purchases now feel that it's settled down to the point at which they can pull the trigger.

Part of the problem is that the industry did not do a very good job at the outset of the 35mm to DCI transition of educating end users to plan for their projectors and servers to have a service life of 10-15 years. As you write, given the nature of computing technology the IT industry, this was entirely predictable. But the bigger problems are, IMHO, runaway inflation in the costs paid by consumers to visit movie theaters, combined with a shortage of decent movies to entice them through the door in the first place. We seem to have reached the point at which a typical middle class family goes to the theater once or maybe twice a year to see a franchise blockbuster that cost its studio half a billion to make and market, paying $100-200 to do so, rather than going once every couple of months to see a movie that cost $50m and paying $50. That results in the land and building utilization going way down and, as you point out, the theater industry as a whole becoming uncompetitive relative to other uses for that land.