Christie Bulbs

[Armand Daiguillon]

Hi all,

I have some Christie Solaria Ones, all are using the CDXL-16M bulbs.
The larger screens though are way dimmer than they should be - the next bulb up is a CDXL-21S1 however they cost almost twice as much and have half the bulb life.
On Christie's Solaria one page it only lists the 14M,16M and 21-S1 bulbs as being compatible.

However there is a CDXL-20SP and CDXL-30SP bulbs that are of the same "Xenolite" series and in their product descriptions they say "compatible with Solaria line" - but are they really ?
Is the info on the official Solaria one page simply outdated so that these bulbs are not listed ?
The 20SP would probably have my two larger screens be as bright as they should be and the 30SP bulb would probably be bright enough for decent 3D. And with stuff like Avatar coming ...that would be nice.

Anybody know anything about these "SP" bulbs and if they are truly "Solaria compatible" as their descriptions say ?


Thanks !!

[Steve Guttag]

The Christie "Solaria" name applies to all of their Series 2 projectors. However that does not mean you can put any lamp, say a CDXL-70 into any projector (like the Solaria-1). All projectors have a size range.

In case of the Solaria-1 you are at the bottom of the line. It uses .69" imagers which mean it is the least efficient (look up Etendue). Because the aperture is so small, it means that you need a comparably smaller arc to get the light through. Naturally, larger lamps use larger arcs. So, you get into a battle of needing more light but as you move up the scale, it gets progressively harder to get more light through a small aperture. This was true even in the film days. It is one of the reasons that 70mm can get more light on a screen than 35mm, particularly 1.85, with the same sized xenon lamp.

So, the bad news for you is that only certain xenon lamps will physically fit in your projector and their arcs have to be very short to get the light through the .69" light pipe/DMD. This is why a CDXL-21S1 is so expensive yet short lasting. It is cramming a significant amount more light through the same small aperture.

The CDXL-20SP and CDXL-30SP are for the CP2220/4220 and the CP2230/4230 (also part of the Solaria line). Though, technically, they will fit the CP2000 series (Series 1) like the CP2000ZX and CP2000S/SB, their software and igniters are not set up for getting the lamps lit over the life of the lamp.

So, if you really need more light (and yes, the bigger the screen, the more light you need), the cheapest solution is probably to get the larger lamps but the cheapest long-term solution is to get projectors that are better suited for the larger screen.

For whatever reason, we rate xenon lamps by their wattage, not lumen output (and I mean lumen output from the lens of their intended projector). Wattage may seem to move up in a linear fashion. However, due to Etendue, light output does not. As you move up in wattage, you are mostly moving up in electric costs and heat.

It was easier to describe with the Barco line of projectors. Barco made the DP2K-15C and the DP2K-19B. They both used the EXACT SAME LAMP (DXL-30BAF) yet the DP2K-19B could go on a 27% wider screen. The difference was 2-fold. The Barco "B: series uses a larger reflector set that captures the light off of the lamp better but the bigger influence is the "B" series is using a 1.2" DMD/light pipe while the "C" series uses the .98" DMD/Light pipe.

One of the big advantages of laser is that we don't have arc sizes to deal with anymore. You can get a laser down much closer to the idealistic "point-source" for a higher efficiency light, even on smaller aperture projectors. There are other downsides to the .69" projectors, like lower contrast ratios but those too are improved with the laser light.

[Armand Daiguillon]

---- "So, if you really need more light (and yes, the bigger the screen, the more light you need), the cheapest solution is probably to get the larger lamps but the cheapest long-term solution is to get projectors that ---- are better suited for the larger screen."

Unfortunately what you're saying is that there is no solution - the 21S bulbs being twice the price for half the life span are just not something we can afford - and a new projector would be lovely. But since we can barely pay our electric bill - dim screens will have to remain.
I'm glad I asked though the product description saying "compatible with Solaria line" is misleading.

Thanks though

[Ryan Gallagher]

---- "So, if you really need more light (and yes, the bigger the screen, the more light you need), the cheapest solution is probably to get the larger lamps but the cheapest long-term solution is to get projectors that ---- are better suited for the larger screen."

Unfortunately what you're saying is that there is no solution - the 21S bulbs being twice the price for half the life span are just not something we can afford - and a new projector would be lovely. But since we can barely pay our electric bill - dim screens will have to remain.
I'm glad I asked though the product description saying "compatible with Solaria line" is misleading.

Thanks though

It's worth noting there could be other factors affecting brightness that need servicing too. But if these projectors are roughly the same age, well serviced, and the main difference is screen size... then it may simply be the screen area as suggested.

[Mete Tunca]

What is your screen size and known gain rating ?

Unless the projector was originally selected to barely suffice with a 1600W lamp and the screen is in very poor condition, the main issue might be the reflector and its housing. You should get service from a technician familiar with Christie systems and have the reflector and housing inspected. If they’re deformed, no matter what wattage lamp you use, you’ll never achieve high brightness. Additionally, there might be light loss due to dust accumulation in the light engine and optical block.

If there are small fragmented cracks around the edges of the reflector mirror, it may indicate that the mirror has shifted over time and lost its focus. This suggests a permanent deformation in its housing. Replacing either the reflector housing or the entire reflector could potentially increase the light intensity.

I had written about these parts in a similar issue before. The Solaria 2210 and Solaria One+ share these components. The difference in the reflector lies in the other chassis part—one of them has a small opening that allows for the installation of a longer lamp.

https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...0313#post50313

[Gordon McLeod]

The Osram XBO 1800w DTS OFR will fit in the solaria one even though it is not listed in the lamp change table. We select the 2.1 lamp set manually the lower current and the shorter lamp life and they work very well and we usually run them for just under 2000 hrs

[Armand Daiguillon]

The Osram XBO 1800w DTS OFR will fit in the solaria one even though it is not listed in the lamp change table. We select the 2.1 lamp set manually the lower current and the shorter lamp life and they work very well and we usually run them for just under 2000 hrs

This is interesting - I looked at this bulb (the 1800) but the Osram chart on their website does not list it as compatible with the Solaria one - they have a 1400, 1600 and a 2100 that they list as compatible.
But whats weird is that all the bulbs from 1400 - 2300 are all listed as CP2210 compatible. (only the 1800 and 2300 are not listed as also Solaria one compatible) - But if it these bulbs work in one - why not the other ? (from i'm seeing the entire "guts" of the light path is all the same in both the "one" and the "2210" ?

You say you've used the 1800 bulb in Solaria one - with no issue and it is cheaper than the Xenolite counterpart (and with a few extra hours on the life span) - how about the 2300 ? It seems it "should" work as well ?

[Stefan Scholz]

AS said before, larger lamps do not mean, more screen lumens. Like in film days, for 35 mm the maximum brightness appered at 4200 W bulbs, a specially made type with very short life.
7 kW just made even brightness adjustments easier, but with even lesser light output towards the screen. It had large benefits at 70 mm projection, though. On my film setup, for the same brightness, we run 6kW Barco bulbs in 35 mm projection, and 3 kW in the 70 mm projectors. AS mentioned here, all due to etendue.
At my school days, a friend and I made experiments with Xenon bulbs.
AS we had early telecom switchmode supplies from recycle, it was easy to build any required power supply. Using the spotlight HSC version of the 2 kW bulb, driving it with 4 kW, it became @a poisenous injection@ into our designed light path of optical effects units for party use.
Same trick on the 4200 lamp, basicly an overloade 2500 W, therefore limited lifespan.
The 2300 W for the Christie is again another "standard" one, which has a longer arc, and thereby no gain in light output on your Solaria one.
The 1800 W being an overloaded 1600 W model, will get you a better output, and still an acceptable lifespan.
Just to be kept in mind, Xenon bulbs loose light output from initial, new status, quite quickly. After 20% lifespan a 30% light loss eventually occurs, gradually going further down to 50% at the rated number of hours.
To maintain an acceptable brightness on screen, lamps must be chosen to compensate at least for the initial dropoff, to have a chance for a good remaining brightness.

[Gordon McLeod]

This is interesting - I looked at this bulb (the 1800) but the Osram chart on their website does not list it as compatible with the Solaria one - they have a 1400, 1600 and a 2100 that they list as compatible.
But whats weird is that all the bulbs from 1400 - 2300 are all listed as CP2210 compatible. (only the 1800 and 2300 are not listed as also Solaria one compatible) - But if it these bulbs work in one - why not the other ? (from i'm seeing the entire "guts" of the light path is all the same in both the "one" and the "2210" ?

You say you've used the 1800 bulb in Solaria one - with no issue and it is cheaper than the Xenolite counterpart (and with a few extra hours on the life span) - how about the 2300 ? It seems it "should" work as well ?

The reason they don't list it on the compatibility chart is the projectors firmware doesn't list it. So as such one selects the next larger lamp and then sets the current limit based on that and the lamp life

[Armand Daiguillon]

The reason they don't list it on the compatibility chart is the projectors firmware doesn't list it. So as such one selects the next larger lamp and then sets the current limit based on that and the lamp life

I see. Interesting.
I also get what others are saying that at a certain point due to aperture size only so much light can pass through regardless of brightness. I'm just trying to get all the actual options to find the most cost effective way to get more light on these screens. These projectors are undersize for these screens ...but I inherited this equipment, and since we can barely pay the electric I need to be creative sometimes.

Here is the hypothetical - if I put the 2300 Osram bulb - which should fit .... I realize the light output would not be more, but if I ran it at say 85% would it put off similar brightness to the 2100 bulb ... but last longer ?

[Caleb Williams]

The reason they don't list it on the compatibility chart is the projectors firmware doesn't list it. So as such one selects the next larger lamp and then sets the current limit based on that and the lamp life

The latest update for Solaria projectors has an "Other <lamp power>" option I'm assuming you would use with 3rd party lamps. We're currently using LTI lamps this way based on their wattage.

I haven't seen anyone mention this, and I also don't know what specific model of projector you are running, but with the CDXL-16M I expect you're running something like the CP2210, which has a 2.1kW lamp ballast. The newer projectors may have ballasts capable of more power, but the bottom line is that the physical connections on the lamp are different between a CDXL-16M and the CDXL-20SP/CDXL-30SP. The M-style lamps "float" in the reflector housing. That is to say, they are only held up on one end, where the CDXL-20SP/CDXL-30SP (or equivalent) are screwed in on the cathode end and then held up on the other by a yoke (think like a fork) on the anode end. You cannot mix the two styles of lamp in the same projector because of their physical differences. If you are looking for 3rd party sellers of these lamps I would recommend getting a picture to compare what they're selling with what you have, so you don't accidentally order the wrong type, as we have done in the past.

I also didn't see anyone else respond to your question about "SP", so here it is: SP stands for superior performance, and is put on lamps that have an expected, extended runtime compaired to their non-SP counterparts. Christie lamps reflect this in warranty hours and cost. ie. the CDXL-30 is warrantied 100% at 1500 hours, where the CDXL-30SP is warrantied 100% at 1900 hours. The total expected life is also a difference of +300 for the SP lamp.

If you are looking at easier ways to limit electrical spending you could integrate an automation system that would kill the lamp if no one shows up to a show. Preliminary r&d at our company unfortunately shows that we would save quite a bit of money on a 10-plex by just shutting the lamp off for no-shows.

[Agnius Acus]

If you are looking at easier ways to limit electrical spending you could integrate an automation system that would kill the lamp if no one shows up to a show. Preliminary r&d at our company unfortunately shows that we would save quite a bit of money on a 10-plex by just shutting the lamp off for no-shows.

That might be a little unrelated, but don't repeated lamp strikes lead to more wear on the lamps compared to just letting them run for extra hours?

[Ryan Gallagher]

That might be a little unrelated, but don't repeated lamp strikes lead to more wear on the lamps compared to just letting them run for extra hours?

Definitely some threads in the archive'd forum on this subject.

https://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ub...001168/p1.html

Highly debatable, as each lamp manufacturer seemed to have their own approach/guidelines for how much screen downtime justifies an off period and restrike. Obviously it needs to be longer than your cool down period... 1 hour seems like a very "conservative" threshold that might be valid for all xenon lamps, but plenty of reel to reel houses killed them between reels (15-20 min on average). The idea of turning one off cause no one was seated for a feature length screening seems well within bounds.

In our mixed-use venue we rarely have more than one set of screenings per day scheduled (feature or double), but in festival/special-event/premiere mode... I just leave it on from the first tech checks all the way through screening. Clients tend to be around so I never know when they are going to ask to see something on screen, and I'd rather be up and running rather than crossing my fingers we don't encounter some kind of error that prevents a restrike on short notice right before a screening. The one place i'm considering killing it is when we have a digital backup to 35/70. But i'm a bit gun shy of the cool-down period overlapping with a need to go to the backup, cause the DCI projector is always in use for pre-roll right up until the feature starts.

[Caleb Williams]

That might be a little unrelated, but don't repeated lamp strikes lead to more wear on the lamps compared to just letting them run for extra hours?

In a CP4220 running a CDXL-45SP lamp we had an automation error that caused the lamp to be hot-struck at the end of every night for months. The runtime of that lamp was about 6 months before it was changed out due to hours, and the lamp itself was it pretty rough shape, but that didn't seem to effect overall brightness until the very end of its life.

If the lamp is turned on before the cooldown is completed or "hot-struck" the internal components will still have enough heat to be malleable and thus prone to material transfer. That would definitely cause flickering or degraded light output sooner in the lamp's life.

Modern xenon's only need 10 minutes for a full cooldown. As long as you allow for that, repeated striking should not cause a significant decrease in lamp life.

[Gordon McLeod]

The old rule of thumb was each ignition removes one hour of life