DCP2K4 w/dolphin to Barco Series 4 4K

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  • Ryan Gallagher
    Film God
    • Nov 2022
    • 2855
    • Austin, Texas, USA

    #1

    DCP2K4 w/dolphin to Barco Series 4 4K

    Maybe I’m being dense, but we will have a visiting Series 4 4K Barco for the festival coming up, but the team has expressed desire to drive the content with our aged Doremi DCP2K4, removing our easy backup 2K options with existing projector. Are they just not wanting to get the work done for new keys?

    Is this wise? From my understanding there is an ancient piece of doremi gear they need to provide (MB-4K) to make this work?

    don’t get me started on the fact the providers think it will be “fine” installed 12ft off screen center with no geometry features like newer Christie’s have. We struggle with keystone on our 3ft off center Series 2.

    We are also super steep so I’m interested to see that solution, last time we had one in the balcony area it was about at a 45deg angle. This time they are hoping for booth install. Our 2K has periscope mirrors on it, and we are not sharing them!

    Not especially looking forward to Day 0 install, which also contains filmmaker tech checks.
  • Leo Enticknap
    Film God
    • Jan 2020
    • 3572
    • Loma Linda, CA

    #2
    I'm 99.9% sure that this is an absolute no go. Series 4 Barcos will not take the Enigma (link decrypter) board, which is what would be needed to get the output of a Dolphin board into the projector. The only alternative would be to convert the DCP-2K4 into a ShowVault and put a Doremi IMB into the projector, for which a kit used to be available, but almost certainly no longer is. But if you did that, the media block serial number would change anyways, thereby defeating the object of the exercise.

    Does the rental SP4K not come with an ICMP-X in it?

    Comment

    • Ryan Gallagher
      Film God
      • Nov 2022
      • 2855
      • Austin, Texas, USA

      #3
      Originally posted by Leo Enticknap
      I'm 99.9% sure that this is an absolute no go. Series 4 Barcos will not take the Enigma (link decrypter) board, which is what would be needed to get the output of a Dolphin board into the projector. The only alternative would be to convert the DCP-2K4 into a ShowVault and put a Doremi IMB into the projector, for which a kit used to be available, but almost certainly no longer is. But if you did that, the media block serial number would change anyways, thereby defeating the object of the exercise.

      Does the rental SP4K not come with an ICMP-X in it?
      My TD is going to circle back on their plans. It is supposedly a white glove install Barco techs are doing. My initial questions made his instinct of avoiding the Doremi salient again. But they were very clear they were hoping to use the Doremi, but not sure if that was festival folks or Barco saying that.

      Plus if they just feed 2K (is that even possible for similar reasons?), it kinda defeats the whole point of the upgrade.

      Comment

      • Leo Enticknap
        Film God
        • Jan 2020
        • 3572
        • Loma Linda, CA

        #4
        In a Barco Series 4 projector there are two options for the video processing side. One is the ICMP-X (ICMP = Integrated Cinema Media Player), the first version of which Barco called the Alchemy, as a result of which the current one is still sometimes called that unofficially. It combines a DCP server, integrated media block, and ICMP, all in one package, that occupies both the IMB option slot and the ICP slot in the projector's card cage. The other is the ICP-D, Barco's successor to the traditional TI ICP that Series 2 Barcos shipped with. The ICP-D enables you to use third party IMBs and IMSs in a Barco Series 4 projector. But the last I knew, which was last October when I asked, the Enigma link decryption board (the board needed to move video from a Series 1 HD-SDI media block into a Series 2 ICP) was not supported by the ICP-D, and Barco had no plans to add that support. I asked, because a customer was upgrading straight from DP1500s (Barco Series 1 projectors) to SP2Ks (Series 4). She wanted to be able to use her existing DSS200/cat862 servers with them, primarily because she liked the UI and didn't want her or her staff to have to train up on a new server. The answer from Barco at that time was a hard no: it can't be done, period. The ironic thing was that buying the projectors with ICMP-Xs in them cost her very little more than the ICP-D variant would have done, for which she got a massive upgrade on the server/media block side. Half a day's training was all that the site staff needed to get up to speed with ingesting, playlisting, and scheduling with the ICMP-X, and the last I knew, they were all very happy with it.

        Comment

        • Steve Guttag
          Film God
          • Jan 2020
          • 3777
          • Annapolis, MD

          #5
          It is hard to not also continue to use Alchemy since Barco does too:

          image.png​

          On the Barco pricing of the ICMP-X (and the current one) does have some back-end cost considerations...those SSD drives, that Barco will not sanction sourcing from anyone but them (if you have server warranty issues) are crazy expensive (from Barco). You can certainly source your own drives but be prepared for Barco to blame them if your server has any issues.

          The realities are for the Dolby DSS line is that they are dying. I changed out two last week which brought one complex to ⅓ originals left and the other to ½. It's not an "if" but a "when" the mediablock is going to die (the real end to the server as most everything else can be sourced). I'm finding that the other brands are on a similar life-cycle. Once those servers get to be in the 10-12 year old range...their rate of failure goes up, dramatically.

          How happy were they with the ICMP-X's ingest speeds? The new ICMP-XS is to be speedy but the ICMP-X...not so much.

          Comment

          • Ryan Gallagher
            Film God
            • Nov 2022
            • 2855
            • Austin, Texas, USA

            #6
            Thanks, that was kinda my gut feeling before even trying to find out. The ICMP-X of course has ALT channel 3g-SDI inputs... but those are in no way meant for the encrypted HD-SDI outputs from the dolphin card in a DCP2K4... and even if that was possible it would not be 4K on those inputs. As we don't run an IMB in our Series 2, borrowing that for use with the ICP-D is not in the cards either.

            I'm not finding anything equivalent to the Series 2 HD-SDI + enigma link decryption card for the Series 4 either, like you said I guess it would have to be an "option" on a ICP-D, which they never implemented (publicly).

            My tech contact inside on the festival side just relayed he believed a media server/IMS was coming with the projector. So a bit more sensical, just confused about where all the other expressions of intent were coming from at this point. And hopefully we don't have a week of scrambling for new KDMs for every window... hopefully everyone is on board with the new IMS idea.

            Comment

            • Ryan Gallagher
              Film God
              • Nov 2022
              • 2855
              • Austin, Texas, USA

              #7
              That said, I just glanced at the keys that are coming from deluxe/studios directly already... and they all reference the "Screen 1 : Doremi DCP-2K-DCI-2TB" still. So not feeling great about the key coordination phase of all this.

              I suppose there is also a chance Barco has some non-public way of making this all work with the Doremi, and that plan is real.

              Comment

              • Leo Enticknap
                Film God
                • Jan 2020
                • 3572
                • Loma Linda, CA

                #8
                Originally posted by Steve Guttag
                How happy were they with the ICMP-X's ingest speeds?
                They didn't comment. In my experience, an ICMP's ingest speeds are no worse than those of a DSS, unless you're forced to use USB2 on the DSS, which, versus USB3 into an ICMP, the latter wins. I typically see 70 to 90 MBPS on an ICMP (all variants) through USB3 or a typical media LAN, and although a DSS doesn't tell you the actual speed it's running at, ingestion times seem to be about the same using either a typical media LAN or its built-in SATA CRU reader. Via USB2 into a DSS, though, figure 2-3 hours for a typical feature.

                The last I heard, the launch of the XS has been pushed at least into the summer.

                Hopefully Ryan's KDMs are being generated by Deluxe: they can usually respond to requests for new ones within minutes. If they're coming from indies, it might be an idea to ask Barco for the serial number of the media block in the rental projector ahead of time, and to try to get ahead of the KDM issue that way.

                Comment

                • Ryan Gallagher
                  Film God
                  • Nov 2022
                  • 2855
                  • Austin, Texas, USA

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Leo Enticknap
                  Hopefully Ryan's KDMs are being generated by Deluxe: they can usually respond to requests for new ones within minutes. If they're coming from indies, it might be an idea to ask Barco for the serial number of the media block in the rental projector ahead of time, and to try to get ahead of the KDM issue that way.
                  Many will be from deluxe (the ones I have this early are), but many come from festival content team directly. My festival contact is running that one up the chain a little to make sure we are not digging a KDM hole here.

                  Projector itself is shipping from CINELAB in London, quite the journey, and I think it is supposed to have arrived to our festival side tech already. It's a Series 4 4K, but not sure which brightness. My TD was expecting 20C, but that would be a match for our CP2220 2K which barely touches 14fL on a new lamp. Hoping it's the 25C. If it was permanent install I'd probably want more for laser power headroom unless a new screen does a lot of the lifting.
                  Last edited by Ryan Gallagher; 03-06-2026, 03:19 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Elia Orselli
                    Pro Film Handler
                    • Jan 2020
                    • 273
                    • Imola, Bologna, Italy

                    #10
                    Barco Series4 with ICP-D will support only ShowVault with IMB (and other IMBs like IMS1/2/3 and other brands). Enigma boards are ICP-D supported only on series 2 projectors.

                    Comment

                    • Steve Guttag
                      Film God
                      • Jan 2020
                      • 3777
                      • Annapolis, MD

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Leo Enticknap

                      They didn't comment. In my experience, an ICMP's ingest speeds are no worse than those of a DSS, unless you're forced to use USB2 on the DSS, which, versus USB3 into an ICMP, the latter wins. I typically see 70 to 90 MBPS on an ICMP (all variants) through USB3 or a typical media LAN, and although a DSS doesn't tell you the actual speed it's running at, ingestion times seem to be about the same using either a typical media LAN or its built-in SATA CRU reader...
                      That's good to know. A common theme I've heard from my customers that have the ICMP-X is how slow it ingests (I never heard that from the Dolby DSS). I would agree that a Dolby DSS tops out around 80-90MB/s. Then again, it does that while showing a movie too. Doremi/Dolby IMS can get over 100MB/s (nearing 120MB/s), if the show isn't running...though Doremi likes to checking thins mid transfer so that lowers the overall average whereas the DSS waits until it is all there and then runs the verification. The DSS will stop a transfer if all of the bits and pieces aren't there at the right times (before moving to reel 2 it wants the picture, sound, captions, font(s)...anything called out in the CPL).

                      Comment

                      • Ryan Gallagher
                        Film God
                        • Nov 2022
                        • 2855
                        • Austin, Texas, USA

                        #12
                        In another wrinkle, I learned we think the DP4K they are sending is the 15C. Was told they did the math for the throw and that was adequate, but that might have been relevant to the projector in the balcony initial plan, and then the festival booked a 35mm, which forced the same rental to move into the booth?

                        If true, I can't imagine how a 17000 Lumen 4K laser is supposed to be an upgrade to our 22000 Lumen 2K that barely gets 14fL on our screen at full lamp power and a new lamp. But at least it does sound like the 2K will be operational in backup due to the media server incompatibility. I'm predicting at least one set of film-makers objects and decides to have a 2K screening on our original equipment.

                        Anyone want to start a betting pool?

                        Edit: there is a chance everything has been accounted for properly (except maybe geometry), and we are just getting old or bad information through the game of telephone since the fest is the primary coordinator on this one.
                        Last edited by Ryan Gallagher; 03-08-2026, 01:19 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Elia Orselli
                          Pro Film Handler
                          • Jan 2020
                          • 273
                          • Imola, Bologna, Italy

                          #13
                          Screen-projector distance doesn't concern the light power needed. If you have a (free) Barco account you can calculate the projector needed with the new single screen calculator: https://cinemacalculator.proj.barco.com/single-screen

                          Comment

                          • Ryan Gallagher
                            Film God
                            • Nov 2022
                            • 2855
                            • Austin, Texas, USA

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Elia Orselli
                            Screen-projector distance doesn't concern the light power needed. If you have a (free) Barco account you can calculate the projector needed with the new single screen calculator: https://cinemacalculator.proj.barco.com/single-screen
                            Thanks Elia. That instills some confidence. Even with an imaginary fully matte 1.4 gain screen (actual is closer to 1.7 but also 10 years old) and higher 10% losses due to non projection rated port glass in that install position. The calculator says a 12C is actually still adequate, and if they bring a 15C we have headroom.

                            Scope imaginary results, 1.4 gain and 10% port losses.

                            Why such a drastic performance improvement given the laser lumen equivalent values (12.5K) being so far from a 22K Xenon projector?
                            Last edited by Ryan Gallagher; 03-08-2026, 03:20 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Ryan Gallagher
                              Film God
                              • Nov 2022
                              • 2855
                              • Austin, Texas, USA

                              #15
                              I think I get it after a bit of reading. I was making the mistake of assuming they were using lumens as comparable equivalent marketing terms like you see in the consumer space so much.

                              But in this end of the industry we actually specify the rated laser lumens, which are utilized much more efficiently towards light on screen, human sensitivity, etc etc. So those rated lumens numbers are not comparable at all between Xenon and Laser cinema projectors.

                              Comment

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