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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » All About Splices-some questions for you guys (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: All About Splices-some questions for you guys
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-09-2000 09:30 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well to be different and probably roasted alive I absolutly hate neumade tape many a loop has been trashed when it lets go
I use the Jack Roe tape from the UK distributed by Marble and CPI
It doesn't fold
Is very clear
strong adesive
and can be peeled off
Until recently one canadian circuit would fire a projectionist for using anything but clear tape

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-09-2000 11:47 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just one more comment--even though I used clear tape as a matter of course, I did keep a couple of rolls of zebra tape around. For me, the only justification for using the zebra tape was if we received a beat-to-hell print that was extremely splicy around the reel changes. In that sort of situation, the zebra tape is very helpful to distinguish repair splices (should be clear) from reel splices (zebra). With new or like-new prints, though, zebra tape is a waste of money, if nothing else.

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-09-2000 03:13 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have four Simplex XL's from the WWII era, and still crankin! They will take your arm off and still keep going. They tear the living crap out of film and eat it for lunch and then call you to tell you how good it was, and never let go. You could run three movies simultaneously and never notice it, in fact I would like to try that someday.

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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-09-2000 03:15 PM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh and back on the subject of only projectionists would notice... Well you might be right, but in that case I think that future projectionists notice too. I was noticing all of the minor nuances back when i was only three years old. Perhaps thats how you know a projectionist when you see one, kind of like sensing a jedi at that age, when they start blowing up large battleships in space and stuff.

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-09-2000 06:29 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, about this peeling business. My manager said he used to do that, but he hasn't encouraged any of us to do it. How important is it? Up until now I wouldn't have even considered it since the white tape won't peel worth a crap. But even now that I'm gonna start using clear is saving that one fram on the head and the one on the tail really that crucial? I mean, at most a print is going to get used three time right? Is losing two frames by the time when it gets to the third run really a disaster? Or is peeling off your tape to save a frame just going to far?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-09-2000 07:43 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin:

Ideally, you should peel off the splices when you reattach the leaders, so there's no loss of continuity. But you are right, reality says that most prints see no more than a handful of theatres in their lifetime, so if each theatre cuts off a frame, you'll loose only a few tenths of a second of continuity even for the sub-, sub-, sub-run. If the act of peeling the splices damages the ends of the film or gets them dirty, as compared to making a simple cut on the splicer, I'd vote for loosing one frame. If you can find a tape that peels cleanly, but still produces reliable splices, peel the splice.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-10-2000 05:43 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keep the splicing tape clear. You're trying to keep the presentation clear on screen. The patrons don't want to see your splicing tape. Splices are easy to find without that sort of garbage.

I like splices to be made end to end, not overlapped at all. If they're done properly, the splice won't move on screen as it goes through the gate and if, as it seems it is now going to happen more often, there are no cues on the prints, you won't notice a thing on screen. All my houses are digital so even if there is a slight (there isn't) gap, it don't matter to me.

Joe, contributed much to this forum you have. Learned some also, mmmm? But Jedi not yet are you.


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-10-2000 06:08 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On Christie projectors the splice will bounce onscreen pretty much no matter what you do. The only way I can prevent this is to cut BEFORE the greenband on trailers, so the bounce happens during the "black" and therefore undetectable.

But you're screwed during reel changes if you use tape splices on a Christie.

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David Koegel
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Alexandria, VA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-10-2000 07:28 AM      Profile for David Koegel   Email David Koegel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe: Then I should assume that you use an ultrasonic splicer? If not, what?? If so, how well do they pass through?

Or are you just saying that all reel changes on Christie's are bouncy no matter what?

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-10-2000 08:07 AM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use 'John Page' Splicing tape from England, peels of in one piece every-time. BTW any advise on peeling of splicing tape? the way i do it now is to lay the film down on a plain surface (base-down, emulision up) then i peel of the emulision side first keeping it pressed to the surface (with out moving the film, or else it may scracth the film) after that it's easy to breakdown the emulision side splice while holding the film up in the air in my hands. Anywon now of a better way?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-10-2000 04:11 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David-

I don't use an ultrasonic splicer right now. I just have to put up with the crappy jump at the reel changes.

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-10-2000 07:13 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"Ok, about this peeling business. My manager said he used to do that, but he hasn't encouraged any of us to do it. How important is it? Up until now I wouldn't have even considered it since the white tape won't peel worth a crap. But even now that I'm gonna start using clear is saving that one fram on the head and the one on the tail really that crucial? I mean, at most a print is going to get used three time right? Is losing two frames by the time when it gets to the third run really a disaster? Or is peeling off your tape to save a frame just going to far?"<<


In my ever-so-humble opinion, it is crucial to save a frame, every time. It's a nasty habit to cut yet another frame because the projectionist won't take the time to peel off the tape. (It's an equally nasty habit to just cut right through the splice, btw, without removing the tape.)

This has got a lot to do with taking pride in what I do. I like to be able to say, "no, I didn't contribute to anything that would help destroy a print today", that's important to me, just as it is important to me to check the focus regularly, maintain Dolby levels at the theatre, and time the curtains so that the show will be a real show instead of just the outlet of some kind of film factory.

As for using the white tape; we don't have it, and I'm glad we don't. Every time I get a print that contains splices made with that crap I get mad because it takes forever to save that frame (yes; I remove it and replace it with clear tape). It won't peel off at all, so the process is tedious and involves chemicals...

Whatever tape is used, it should meet the following criteria:

- It should peel off easily.
- It should be strong enough not to break.
- It should be invisible to the patrons.

Not that I want to criticise others, but this tape splice thing is a pet peeve of mine.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 03-10-2000 07:56 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>This has got a lot to do with taking pride in what I do. I like to be able to say, "no, I didn't contribute to anything that would help destroy a print today", that's important to me, just as it is important to me to check the focus regularly, maintain Dolby levels at the theatre, and time the curtains so that the show will be a real show instead of just the outlet of some kind of film factory.<<

I don't consider osing one frame off each end of a reel "contributing to its destruction." Considering that most prints end of being incinerated in the end, I don't think it really matters. I did try peeling tape today when I tore down Hurricane. The white of course wouldn't come off worth a damn, and the clear stuff we use (the film was half and half for some reason) doesn't peel all that well either.

About white tape: I really don't uderstand how it is such a big annoyance. It only causes a momentary (1/24 of a second to be exact) flash on the screen. Considering most (almost all) reel changes coincide with scene changes in the film, most people don't even notice. I was an avid movie goer before I worked at the this theater, and I must say I never did.

If it really matters to you guys that much, more power to you. I have way too many other things to do to lose sleep over white tape .

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-10-2000 08:58 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is funny but experience has taught me that operators that don't care about the quality of there splices and how that effects their presentation are probably to busy to ever clean a projector let alone the lens
to busy to ever check the a chain levels
and in many cases to busy to check if they have even threaded correctly and scratched a print.
They also are probably boasting about haveing threading contests as to who can laceup the fastest.
Also since you seem to feel that films are incinerated at the end of the run well that is only partially true
Usually one or two prints are kept for revival and rep houses and they don't have time to check them so it may just be the one you didn't think was worth looking after and some one else will get stuck with your mess

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Patrick S. Chaffins
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Mount Clemens, Michigan, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-10-2000 09:03 PM      Profile for Patrick S. Chaffins   Email Patrick S. Chaffins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Gordon
Your Reply was better than anything that I could've said
Pat

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