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Topic: CAP code secrets revealed

Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 06-29-2000 12:32 PM

When Cap Coding was invented, 18 years ago, print orders were 2000 prints max. Since then, print orders have gone up, that's why the Cap Coding is not always on the same reel within a title (ie: Dinosaur), after the 2000th print, they have to switch to a different reel.

And John P., don't hate me just because I'm not a fan of Cap Coding. I do think it's obtrusive (dots on a reel of film, numerous times), but it is the best thing we have presently... Yet, be honest John, you gots to be working on something new to replace Cap Coding, right? The technology is here. Robust, undetectible watermarking in both the audio soundtrack and the visual image on screen (hint).

Anything for a better presentation.

THXfully Yours, Ted

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-29-2000 03:48 PM

I'm wondering though for argument's sake...let's say "Bob" is running a 30 plex and he gets 3 prins of a major movie. With Deluxe clearly marking the CAP code status on the leaders and different reels being coded, wouldn't this make it awfully easy for him to swap reels around between the cans to assemble a non-CAP coded print?

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-24-2000 09:32 PM

I just saw X-Men again today... different auditorium and different print than I'd seen before. This time, the CAP Code just happened to appear in at least three places where the screen was bright... almost a completely white picture and Bang! There were those funny, brownish/orange dots. It was very annoying and, now that I know it was really the CAP Code, it was unacceptably annoying.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-25-2000 05:55 AM

The "annoyance factor" of CAP Code is like that of cue marks. Once you know they are there, you notice them. Most people who are unfamiliar with projection technology don't notice cue marks until you point them out, likewise with CAP Code.

CAP Code dots are much smaller than cue marks, and their position in the image is random, so most people don't pick up on them. Remember, it took me months to convince expert Film-Tech Forum members that CAP Code really existed! It needs to be visible in any video copy, but was designed not be be too visible or annoying.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-25-2000 06:48 AM

I guess then there will be ''dots'' on the rejuvented US prints for Europe as well, as the ''dots'' don't go away when the print gets treated? Hope this makes sense. I've been looking hard to find the ''dots'' on the prints we show in Denmark, havent found them yet!

------------------
It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-25-2000 07:42 AM

Martin: CAP Code is a permanent image, and is not removed by film cleaning, treatment, or "rejuvenation" procedures. European labs are capable of printing CAP Code, so it is likely that many of your new prints have it as well. It may be that they are not printing the verification edge numbers, or using a newer less visible version of code. I'm pretty sure INTERPOL uses CAP Code to track sources of pirated videos, just as the FBI does in the states. Dara MacGreevy is the head of the MPA Anti-Piracy Operations in Europe.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-25-2000 08:03 AM

What I saw looked A LOT bigger than cue marks. And it looked like 8 or 9 dots at once... not like the three dots in the example which started this thread.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-25-2000 08:26 AM

Greg:

If you saw 8 or 9 dots, it wasn't the CAP Code I helped develop.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-25-2000 09:43 AM

If it weren't illegal, I'd be tempted to sneak a camera into that theatre and roll some video so you could help figure out what I saw.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-25-2000 10:00 AM

Greg: Please DON'T videotape the movie! I don't want any of my friends sent to prison, and they probably don't allow Internet access in jail.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-25-2000 03:38 PM

In order to go to prison, you must first get caught. I don't think that Greg taping part of a reel would have any consequences, primarily because he wouldn't be selling it and would only use it to privately discern what the dots are. Doubt that the MPAA or FBI or Interpol would ever even have a clue.

I'm sure that you taped a reel to test the CAP code once you invented it. Did you do some hard time for that? Now that I think of it, don't most of the Video CD screener bootlegs come from Rochester?

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 07-25-2000 06:28 PM

Well, thanks for the encouragement but there's no way I'm going to do any pirating. They always turn me away when I wear the eye patch with the THX logo on it and my parrot usually says something offensive to the ushers.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-25-2000 06:59 PM

John's right--the CAP code really isn't annoying (or even noticeable) unless you know exactly what to look for. Just don't tell anyone about it. I've made the mistake of telling my friends about changeover cues and they all hate me now because they can't go to the movies without being bothered by something that they had never seen before. (well, they don't actually hate me, but...)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-25-2000 07:11 PM

Ditto to what Scott said. My friends HATE me for showing them the changeover cues. John really did put it best above:
"The "annoyance factor" of CAP Code is like that of cue marks. Once you know they are there, you notice them. Most people who are unfamiliar with projection technology don't notice cue marks until you point them out, likewise with CAP Code."

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-25-2000 09:39 PM

It seems to me that, depending on the lab that makes the print, the dots change size.

For instance, on Shanghai Noon they were smaller and darker. The movie was SCOPE, too so they were more oblong. On Big Momma they were big, blotchy looking things but they were yellow brown in color.

Also, some prints have edge numbers and others don't.

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