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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » High-Magenta & Cyan Soundtracks (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: High-Magenta & Cyan Soundtracks
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-20-2000 08:12 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark@GTS said
P.S. The RED LED's alone generally sell for around 150.00 retail for those that do not know.

Plus the engineers labour and travel costs to go and put them in

Also labs that use forward reverse printers ( alot of them do)are have a serious problem with crossmod distortion as the printer ramps up and down speed changing exposure

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-20-2000 08:26 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

It may or it may NOT happen sooner or later...the point that really gets me upset is the absolute scare that It WOULD happen in 2000 (I believe a USL ad and it didn't) and now IT WILL happen in January 2001 (it isn't going to happen then either). The illusion of some phantom government mandate is in the air when, in fact, none exist. To me, that is simply an attempt to scare exhibitors to go along with their agenda. Furthermore, the cyan track is being touted as a "milestone" in cinema sound...like it is somehow superior from an exhibitor's point of view, like Dolby Stereo or Dolby SR or any of the digital sound systems are as compared to their predicessors.

The $150 figure you quoted is probably on the low side (for end users), depending on your dealer...I've seen them from about $145.00 to about $180.00 and they list for $200.00. But using your figure of $150 That is roughly 15 exciter lamps worth. Would your customers change out 15 exciter lamps in the same time frame? Also who installs the LED? One really can't get the LED right without test equipment. The exciter lamp can be changed by the end-user...thereby making the LED yet more expensive to replace.

Again, I'm sold on the reverse scan reader concept, have been since the DP-70. I just don't like the shaddy way the cyan track thing is being presented.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-20-2000 03:04 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,
I have never set a date in any of my customers minds. They do underestand that it could happen and probably will at some point in time. I'm pushing the scanners mainly for the gain in sound quality,. Be it red, pink, Blue, green, or purple light source.
Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-20-2000 06:36 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

You and I know each other too well for me to think any differently. You and I are in complete agreement. The key is the improvement of the reverse scan reader...going with the red led as part of the deal is a nice insurance to a potential situation.

I have never talked anyone out of putting in a reverse scan reader with any color light source, except in archival situations. Like every other dealer, I put in the new projectors with red LEDs. Furthermore, anyone that has followed my postings know I prefer basement readers; a sure bet that there is a red led near by for the analog and digital track. I do prefer the Cat. 700 with the EPT lamp vastly over the Cat. 701 with the LED.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"


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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-20-2000 07:48 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I wanted to upgrade to reverse scan in the next year or so, would I be smart to order sooner than later and avoid the panic
(and possible shortage), OR wait a little and see how these Swiss laser units perform?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-20-2000 09:07 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave:

If you want to upgrade to a reverse scan reader in the near future, please do so. I, personally, don't think there will be a panic but I would let sound business decisions dictate when you should do your upgrade. Even now, just before the busy winter season would be fine.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2000 05:13 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There IS one benefit to having a JAX light:

If for some SOME reason you want to go back it's easy. All you have to do is get the male Pheonix connector and rig it as a jumper. Provided your exciter supply doesn't need to be modified for the JAX light all you have to do is put in an old exciter lamp and jumper the preamp wires. When you want to go back to the JAX light just plug the preamp and LED back in.

I don't think the JAX lights are as good as a reverse scanner but if you use good shielded wires it's not that bad.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2000 07:56 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you know it's comin and you're gonna do it and you got the dough, why wait? It's kind like driven on the freeway. Some people stay in the fast lane till it's time to exit and then cut over 3 lanes at once and try to make it to the exit. Some people work there way over ahead of time so they don't have to make a last minute attempt at the exit. I like to do it ahead of time so I don't have to think about it anymore. One ways just a bit more conservative than the other.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-22-2000 09:01 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greg:

Using your anaology with the freeway....

Your exit hasn't been built yet and it isn't definate it EVER will be built therefore, why are your moving over at all? You aren't going to be getting off anywhere!

To make your analogy work, you would have to have a date set for the exit to be finished at which point, you can then gauge when to move over (be it late or early). The people that have been touting dates don't have the authority to set such dates and are, as such, bogus dates.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 02:15 PM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve
Please reread the first sentence in my post. There's several "Ifs" there. As far as "it" never happening... Seems like there's been several reputable persons, lately, saying that "it" is. Why would they all lie? My freeway exit story was just to illustrate different ways of thinking. I would think, if for no other reason, that a theater owner would want to make their analog sound system sound as good as possible. The reverse scan does just that. It also so has the advantage that IF there is a conversion to the new sound tracks, THEN you will be ready. Meanwhile your theater sounds better.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 04:10 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think we will probably see DLP long before we see mainstream implimitation of cyan tracks
One person mentioned that they wouldn't want to console their custimers to wait and then get caught but dealers will probably have a lot of egg on their faces and loss of reputations if it doesn't come to pass

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-22-2000 04:28 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, but on that freeway, there are several construction zones that slow things down. Some exits are not big enough to fit everyone getting off at the same time. Low bridges will prevent large quanities of readers from being manufactured. Guardrails keep people going in the way of industry. And, is the freeway really "free?" Besides, which.....

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 04:48 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All you guys have to realize one thing. That is that the labs are run by the bottom line. If they can do something that saves them money, or eliminates hassles which cost time and money they will eliminate that part of it, or change it to a less hassle and cost method. That includes the redevelopement part of processing machines which are usually the highest maintainance part of processing machine operation. That alone guarantees that yes, there will be a day comming with cyan tracks, or something else, domimnating the field.
Mark

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 05:46 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It may indeed be coming someday, but if I were a theatre owner and I had a choice between spending $800-1k per machine to "upgrade" my soundheads to reproduce tracks that don't exist yet (on mainstream release prints) or meeting my payroll/rent for the month, I'd go for the latter... I can't think of too many theatre owners who have "extra" cash these days.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2000 07:39 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,
Actually that cost you stated is way too high. A new C.E. scanner can be had for around 550.00 from at least several dealers. Since it does not take long to install I reccommend to clients to have them installed at normal service intervals and to spread them out over a year or two. We have been doing that for quite some time now. If you have a 6 screen and 2 or 3 service intervals a year the cost would hardly be felt. Likewise, for a theater on a shoestring, proper budgeting can make it affordable even when spread out over time. I can't remember ever going into a 6 plex and installing them all in one shot except for new construction.
Likewise, the main reason for installing one is for the performance gains(as long as you don't run old tracks). These are not small performance gains, but huge gains. Gains that perhaps your customers would hear and over a time help take you off the tight budget. Plus you won't be closing down your operation because you WILL be ready if the cyan print thing happens to make it's way into your booth some unsuspecting evening.
Mark@GTS



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