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Topic: Simplex Oil/Lube Questions

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-28-2001 06:24 PM

David, I would think so. Just stay within the guidelines John suggested.

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 01-28-2001 10:28 PM

Mark, Yes, the advantages of synthetic are good when you consider it being contained for exrented periods of time, however, as you know, drop-by-drop oiling daily in older machines tends to use a larger amount of oil
as opposed to contained oiling systems, thus if you follow manufacturer's recommendations and change the oil in intermittents every 6 months rebuilds are quite seldom as metal / build up deposits are eliminated, using synthetics for long periods of time do not allow flushing of damaging materials, thus wear will naturally occur too. It's like changing the oil in an aout engine every 3000
miles with petrolium oil and removing the hydrocarbons and other pollutants every oil change, it has been proven that oilchanges on less frequent intervals with synthetics have indeed caused more wear by retaining hydrocarbons in the lubricant. So, it actually is a waste of money and material to use synthetics in a device that the lubricant
is allowed to flow out of like open 'oilite' bushings in projectors. I say keep the original style oil as long as you are hand oiling anyway, its just as effective and
a lot less expensive! All manufacturers (except christie) recommend intermittent oil changes at regular intervals! That's why most old style intermittents are still running and a large number of 'ultramittents' break down within two or three years of use! Sorry, but I hold fast on this by experience....even Motiograph recommended changing lube twice a year! I can't expect even the best synthetic or regular oil to last indefinitely without some failure as inevitable!

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-29-2001 04:33 PM

John,
While I definately do not reccommend using it in a projector that has seen years of standard oil, as this type of machine already has seen the effects of using the standard oil, I do reccomend it in a machine that has been completely rebuilt or in an intermittent that has just been overhauled, even in a Super or E-7!. Once you understand the advantages of synthetic and take into account that the LaVezzi Oil permeates the metal which regular oil does not it only makes sense. Since there is so little oil in most machines, regular oil will tend to break down before the three months oil change is up, especially when running with larger lamps. There may be an exception to this in machines that hold a quantity of oil like say a DP-70. Here, regular oil will last longer, and take longer to break down due to the quantity, but most machines, and or movements only hold several ounces. Here, synthetics go much longer before they break down or start to get acedic, sometimes it can be 3 to 4 times the life before this breakdown starts. I still advocate changes at regular intervals even with synthetic as specified by the manufacturer. However in the case of using synthetic over regular oil the difference in wear between normal interval changes will be far less than with using regular oil. Also coating all parts before re-assembley with synthetic makes working on it much easier in the future as it will still be there and allow the parts to slide apart easily.
Mark @ GTS
Machines that I have used it for a long time in.......
XL's, 35mm and 35/70
Simplex E-7
Norelco DP-70/AA-2
Kalee
Century
Cinemeccanicas
Bauer U-2

P.S. When I had my Dodge V-10 I got an extra 2.5 to 3 mpg just by switching to synthetic!!

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-30-2001 08:02 AM

Every time I fill my Simplex XL will oil, it just seems to "bleed" all over the basement floor. I have to keep a 5 gallon bucket under the soundhead to catch it all.

I've replaced the gasket on the gear cover, but to no avail, it keeps bleeding out. If I remember correctly, it's leaking from the main drive gear? Any suggestions?

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-30-2001 08:17 AM

Barry,
You are probably overfilling it and having it run past the drive gear. An older X-L doesn't hold much oil!! Same with the SH-1000, only several ounces. Be careful because if you are projecting on a level throw with it at home it may not oil well. Be sure to get the oil intake screen down so it is almost touching against the bottom of the casting. The intermittent should receive oil at about a drop a second or a little faster after the machine has been running a few minuites.
Strong makes a seal kit that replaces the bearing retainer with a retainer that has a shaft seal. These usually cure the leakage but not always. If you get one you need to tel them you are using an SH-1000 so you get the correct drive gear with the kit. Another spot that can leak big time is the oil level gauge. Take it apart and clean it up well. Replace all the rubber parts but before you re-assemble it take the glass and polish the end that contacts the rubber gasket. I have seen some really poor glass cuts that were very rough and would'nt seal up well. Also install a new sight glass to case gasket and coat it with silicone blue before you install it but make it a thin film, not too much goo here as you can plug the oil inlet to the gauge. If you don't coat the gasket it may act as a wick. I always hated these sight glass assemblys!! They are usually a constant drip source and neusance. Strong went the right direction when they decided to install the Yamaha oil sight glass on the operators side and the seal kit as it increased the oil capacity of the machine by about threefold.
I usually offer my customers two choices on rebuilding an X-L. I can install the Yamaha sight glass or machine the casting at the front for an "O" ring instead of the gasket. Either of these cures the leaks completely.
Mark @ GTS

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-30-2001 08:27 AM

I've been using Cinema Products projector oil and Century Gear Grease in my Super Simplex. Because I am still in the process of doing my set up I have never run a full-length feture. My question is: Exactly how quiet is quiet when it comes to an old Super? I've heard the "purrs like a kitten," type comments for over a year now.

Though my projector isn't what I'd call loud, there is a little whine in it. The local tech, Mack Williams, says it sounds like a worn gear all the way in the middle of the upper section of the projector head. You can just barely see it when you look in the gear side. According to him it doesn't appear to be all that worn, and with the amount of use it will get from a hobbyist it could last decades. Does this seem to be a reasonable assumption? After all, I have a lot of time and effort invested in this thing. I wonder if it's worth doing a rebuild.

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Jack Culpepper
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: Gulfport, MS, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-30-2001 11:39 AM

I HAVE A SIMPLEX X-L PROJECTOR ALONG WITH AN RCA 9030 SOUND HEAD. A TECHNICIAN WHO HELP ME SET UP MY SCREENING ROOM TOLD ME THAT A GOOD LUBE MIXTURE IN THE PROJECTOR WAS SIMPLEX PROJ. OIL MIXED WITH MARVEL MYSTERY OIL. FOR THE SOUND HEAD A GOOD QUALITY 10W-40 MIXED WITH MARVEL MYSTERY. HE RECOMMENDED A CERTAIN RATIO MIX. AFTER 8 YEARS THE SYSTEM SEEMS TO STILL BE WORKING EXCELLENT. IF THIS DOES NOT SOUND O.K., I WOULD APPRECIATE SOME ADVICE.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-30-2001 11:47 AM

Barry, I agree with Mark. Another thing that may have happened is someone used a mounting bolt that was too long and may have fractured the main casting of the projector. Another thing to look at is the non-operating side gear cover itself. Through the years, the slots get so distorted from over-tightening that it is impossible for the gasket to seat properly. One question, though - after the machine sets over night, how much oil remains in the machine? Does it all drain out? If so, I would suspect a fractured casting, or the sight glass leaks like the devil.

Harry, that gear is a booger to change. If it doesn't seem to get any worse, probably is just best to leave it alone, and just keep it lubed. Are you absolutely sure that is where the gear whine is coming from? Is there a chance you could have an RCA gear driving a Simplex gear? They really will whine. Also, if it is the gear you suspect is whining, it may have been due to running in grease too long. Every gear I changed in a Super or E-7 was greased. That should say something...

Jack, I question the 10W40 oil you are using in the sound head. It may attack the rubber on the rag coupling, but I am not too sure on that one. Also, it could attack some of the wiring you have in the sound head, too.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 01-30-2001 12:05 PM

I hear ya Barry. Since I have no experience with this stuff, I always overfill and then use my XL's "self-adjusting oil level" feature! Also, because of the slope at the theatre they came from, they operated nearly flat. When I got them home, I noticed that the oil bath was okay on one machine, fairly intermittent on the other (because of a slight slope on my garage floor). So, I installed the drive-in kit, to essentially move the oil take up from the front to the little "sump" (?) right behind the vertical shaft (?). Now I've got lots of oil in the mechanism (and on the floor!)!

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-30-2001 12:24 PM

Dave, try lowering your "self adjusting oil feature" just a teeny bit, and make sure the sump pick-up is placed as low as possible.

Also, a source for XL leaks is their stupid sight glass, and gear cover gasket on the non-operating side of the projector. As far as the main drive is concerned, oil will run out of that thing if the sump pick-up on the pump is too far off the floor of the projector casting. This holds true if you are using the sump in the front of the machine as well as the rear.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-30-2001 12:42 PM

Harry, I have never been in favor of greasing the gears in an E-7 or Super. They were not designed for that. Just good old Simplex oil, on your daily rounds proir to start-up. I never greased the gears in an E-7 or a Super, and I never had any gear failures due to lack of lubrication. The only gear failures I have seen were due to negligence one way or the other. All those gears want is nice clean Simplex oil, or the concoption of Marvel and Simplex. I have to stand firm on this one.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-30-2001 06:26 PM

Westrex always specified a esso 20 oil for there equipment (the same as century) and Wassman specified 10w30 for there machines
A lot of phillips were speced in the 60's with esso and shell oils as well

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Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 01-30-2001 07:55 PM

A question for the Simplex oil mavens...several years ago, someone gave me a gallon of Kinoton projector oil. Is this oil OK for use in an E-7 in a home-screening-room environment?

(I hope it is, because I have been using this oil for some time now. )

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-30-2001 09:09 PM

Jon, I looked at Kinoton's web site, but could find nothing about the oil they use. But, I did find an email address of someone who can tell you about the oil. It is:

john@blsi.com

I personally never worked with any Kinoton products, so I'll stay out of it. But, gentlemen like John Eickhof and some of the others on Film-Tech Forums might be able to shed some light on the oil they use, what it is, and how good it is.

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-30-2001 09:47 PM

Paul, should I just let the grease in my Super run it's course, or should I try to clean it off? I just used it on the large gears (i.e., the drive gear from the sound head, and the other two or three exposed gears). I never used it on any of the internal gears. The guy I bought the projector from was using grease, so rookie that I am, I just continued doing so. I haven't heard a lot of negative comments about it until now.

And thanks to all, as always, for the comments.

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