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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Simplex Oil/Lube Questions (Page 3)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4   
Author Topic: Simplex Oil/Lube Questions
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 01-30-2001 10:19 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Harry, I have cleaned a few without having negative results, and the machines seemed to run a little better. If you used grease on the main drive or intermediate drive gears, just simply clean them up. I am happy to hear you did not use grease on the internal gears. When you clean those gears up, inspect the shafts and oil gallerys to make sure they are not plugged with coagulated grease.
I really don't think you will have any problems. Those old Simplex projectors are tough little guys, and can take alot of abuse. I would recommend you get a manual on those so you know where ALL the oiling points are. There are a few that are easy to overlook. There may be a grease cup on the rear shutter bearing, and Simplex did make a grease for that. Since that grease my no longer be available, some of the old timers might be able to give you some direction on that. It has been 20 years since I tore down a Super for rebuild.

It is a SIMple machine, but it can very comPLEX


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

- posted 01-31-2001 10:01 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What oil should I use in a brenkert BX 100/RCA 100? Could I use that marvel mystery oil in them mixed with lavezzi oil?

Josh

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 01-31-2001 10:22 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh, I recommend only Brenkert oil. I have not received any feedback on Marvel mixture used in a Brenkert enviroment. But in any event, I certainly do not recommend Simplex or Lavezzi oil in a Brenkert. It is just too heavy, and some of the moving part fittings in a Brenkert are 1 nitch below a plug fit.



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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

- posted 02-01-2001 06:57 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wolk can fix you up with the correct oil for a Brenkert. Anything that's heavier than the correct stuff will not be thrown around properly and get to all the spots that need lubed.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 02-02-2001 05:38 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul and Jeff,
You are both right! Never use anything as heavy as Simplex or LaVezzi in a Brenkert. Brenkerts are in a class by themselves for the lube department. I can't see how a shot or two of Marvel would ever hurt things though. It should actually help. Many camera men use Marvel and mineral oil 60/40 to lube camera movements that cost more than some theater complexes do to build.
Mark @ GTS

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000

- posted 02-05-2001 11:19 AM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been using a specific type of
Otis elevator oil lube in my Simplex 1014
without any problem at all. Mr. Pytlak,
could you take a look at this subject?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 02-05-2001 11:47 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matthew: Sorry, I'm not an expert on projector oils (unless they get put on the film ).

FWIW, oils can leach the oil-soluble dyes from color film, especially if the topmost protective gelatin layer has been abraded. A telltail sign is the formation of tiny green or yellow spots in dark areas of the picture, as the magenta and cyan dyes are leached out by the oil. If you wipe the oil off the film with a clean white tissue, and see a distinct color, the color is likely due to the dyes.

Bottom line is to keep the operating side of the projector clean and oil free, so oil doesn't get on the film!

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 02-05-2001 03:55 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One thing I don't understand here. For over 50 years, RCA and Simplex Sound Heads have been using 30 or 40 weight non-detergent motor oil. The only problem is that when you run the soundhead low on oil, it'll just lunch a gear. Obvoiusly, it is not an oil problem, so I don't understand why some people want to use anything other than the recommended. It does not make any sense at all. That stuff worked for years.


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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 02-05-2001 09:23 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Paul! No matter what type of lubricant is used, if it is not used, problems will occur! Thus the secret (Ha Ha)
to longevity of ANY type of equipment is proper and frequent maintenance! Synthetics, and newer products have their place, but lack of maintenance will result in a dark screen everytime! And of course to the end user..it's a lot less expensive to pour mineral based oil through an open bearing machine (including most intermittents) than to waste money on a more sofisticated product that still ends up on the floor or in a waste oil collector! And to repeat what Paul said, intermittents have lasted for years with what the maker of them recommends!

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 02-05-2001 09:27 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh, for the Brenkerts, check with a Texaco or Conoco oil distributor, ask for 'Turbo
Oil #25' It is a 6-7 wt wax free oil or ISO
25 that you can use in the Brenkert. Otherwise, as mark suggested, mix Marvel Mystery oil with Simplex oil about 20% MM to
80% Simplex. Remember, Marvel oil has solvents in it so don't use too much!

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 09-20-2001 08:24 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have not yet found out what the Brenkert Oil specifications are. Does anyone know for sure? ISO 24 still seems to be a little heavy from what I have seen 30 years ago.


We all know that Capella WF-32 is too thick for Brenkerts. I have discovered that I can easily get ISO 15 Handi-Oil. and ISO-10 Spindle Oil A. One of those almost has to be closer to Brenkert Oil than the ISO 24. It seems very close in viscosity when the can is shaken. (sounds like kerosene).


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Geoffrey Weiss
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: May 2001

- posted 04-12-2002 06:33 PM      Profile for Geoffrey Weiss   Email Geoffrey Weiss   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, Paul told me some of what I need to know. Simplex no longer manufactures rear shutter grease. I'm working on a regular Simplex, and the grease cups for the motor bearings were packed with congealed grease. So I cleaned the cups and bearings out (with q-tips, soft shop towels, tooth-picks, and projector oil) and need to repack the bearings. The manual recommends the "Simplex Rear Shutter Grease," but suggests Texaco Marfak #2 as a substitute. The local supplier won't sell me less than a case. Another supplier recommended a synthetic when I asked about lubing bearings in an electric motor the size of this one. Anybody have any experience with using synthetic grease in a motor bearing? (I think I'll stick with projector oil for the gears, as John E. recommends.)

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William Bunch
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Misawa, Japan
Registered: Nov 2001

- posted 04-16-2002 09:38 PM      Profile for William Bunch   Author's Homepage   Email William Bunch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the Army/Air Force theaters are still using Simplex XL with RCA 930 soundheads. We get our oils from Ed Wolk.

The soundhead oil is DYNOL 367 and is blue in color. It is listed as a hydraulic/lubricating oil with anti wear properties. Ask for Wolk's part number 25551

Projector oil is Mobil Gargoyle Artic 155. This is almost clear. It is a synthetic oil especially made for refrigeration compressors. Ask for Wolk's part number "Artic 155"

Paul said it correctly here that if you do not keep enough oil in the soundhead it will "lunch" the gears. Last year I had a soundhead in Tokyo go out this way. The projectionists thought everything was alright since the sightglass was always full. Well, after fifty some years some crud had finally settled in the base of this sightglass and completely clogged the line. The oil was not being replenished to the gearbox. Crunch !! So now on my rounds I always use a piece of tubing or drinking straw to blow down that sightglass tube to make sure the passage is clear. But I'm not sure where the little puff of air ends up.

Bill BuncH
Misawa, Japan

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

- posted 04-18-2002 05:28 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To William Bunch:

About the sight glasses clogging up. I have to go back through the RCA and Simples manuals (on Film-Tech), but if memory serves me right, they do speak of the need of keeping the gear box vent hole clear to prevent improper sight glass readings.

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Andy Bergstrom
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: St. Cloud, MN
Registered: Feb 2000

- posted 04-19-2002 01:51 PM      Profile for Andy Bergstrom   Email Andy Bergstrom   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One should always be sure the oil tube isn't discolored from the use of the wrong type lubricant. I have seen RCA gearboxes destroyed from lack of oil because the oil tube was discolored giving the impression that the oil level was sufficient. My belief is that at one point the wrong lubricant was used in the soundhead stainning the tube the same color as oil. A lesson from the school of hard knocks.

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