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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Thank-you Technicolor F@#K YOU!!!!! (Page 4)

 
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Author Topic: Thank-you Technicolor F@#K YOU!!!!!
Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-05-2001 09:46 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only problem with those split reels is that they say right on them "Do not use as normal reel!". Now as to what this actually means...any thoughts? Are they worried about them unscrewing while being turned too often?

-Mike

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-05-2001 11:22 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it unscrews in the direction of rotation, there could be a problem.

Since the reels turn in a CCW direction when you are mounting your print, just flop the reel over and put a half of a twist in the film. That way, the reel will turn in the CW direction. That should work, shouldn't it?

That's why Brenkert put a left-handed thread on the screw that holds the intermittent sprocket on the shaft so the screw doesn't unthread itself. Now this can get confusing, I know. If you hold the screw that secures the intermittent sprocket to the shaft, and when the shaft rotates, it'll tighten the screw.

But if the shaft is not driven, and you are pulling it instead, such as making up a film, it may unscrew itself. For me, it is hard to explain. Just play with it, and you will probably get the drift of what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you folks out there can explain it better than I can.


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-05-2001 11:40 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had a Goldberg split reel come apart during a dailies session, Luckily I was there to quickly screw it back together and then I used a house reel for the rest of the rolls.

Aaron

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Chris Wootten
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Moonlit Cinema, RAAF Tindal, N.T. Australia
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-06-2001 04:38 AM      Profile for Chris Wootten   Email Chris Wootten   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg...... Companies who used to care about customers and service, are only interested in the "bottom line", and their standing with the stock holders. Businesses don't seem to have a conscience anymore. The ones who suffer are normally the innocent recipients of the aftermath of penny pinching bean counters......

beware the bean counters......best of luck Rachael..

------------------
"I luv the smell of napalm in tha mornin !"

Keep Smiling......Chris

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-06-2001 02:36 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just guessing, but perhaps the reason they don't want you to use a split reel as a regular reel is it may unscrew at the higher speeds found when breaking down a print.

One time when I was running 35mm mag track on a dubber. The mag film was warped or something. (The reel flanges are swaged on the center brass core of the reel.) The film was riding/pressing against the outside reel flange. About halfway through, the outside of the reel popped off, and started flopping around. Luckly, the film didn't dump onto the floor, or get damaged.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-06-2001 08:53 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reels like that should be either repaired or thrown in the trash.

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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 02-08-2001 11:55 AM      Profile for Rachel Carter   Email Rachel Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to let you guys know, I talked to a lawyer....and I don't think he knew who technicolor was hehe, I just thought that was funny

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!

Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-08-2001 04:15 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rachel, what happened with the lawyer? Were you brushed off with a "this is covered by workman's comp." or did he or she think it merited further inquiry?

BTW, has anyone thought of pushing the reel problem as a mcguffin for an action film? Put sharp metal points on the outside of the reels and and they are like those flying stars in the karate movies. The "cut" line (sorry for the pun) could be "NOW! SEE A PROJECTIONIST DECAPITATED - IN AND BY TECHNICOLOR!!!"

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-08-2001 05:10 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have been brushed off by a lawyer on this matter...get another lawyer.

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-08-2001 06:49 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there any federal body in the US (or one that operates at state or local level) which is specifically charged with enforcing health and safety law? In the UK we have two levels of health and safety law enforcement. Firstly, the local authority (in my case, York City Council) inspects cinemas routinely to ensure that they are obeying all aspects of health and safety law. For more serious matters (this usually means investigating workplace accidents that result in injury or death) there is a government body called the Health and Safety Executive.

If Rachel's accident had happened in the UK,
it would have needed to be formally reported to the Health and Safety Executive under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurances Regulations (RIDDOR), which is a legal requirement under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act. Action against Technicolor would almost certainly have followed.

Secondly, why do release prints need to be shipped on projection spools at all? Lets face it, 90% of cinemas run prints off platters. As for the other 10%, if the spools supplied by distributors are as bad as you guys say, then no self-respecting projectionist would dream of using them to run prints from anyway. In the UK and Europe prints are supplied in plastic containers on 3-inch cores. The projectionist uses a split spool or a plate to wind them onto a platter or a solid spool for projection. This has several advantages:

1. Defective spools would be a thing of the past. Cinemas which did show films reel-to-reel would keep their own set, which the projectionists would take care of and ensure that they didn't get bent or damaged.

2. There would be less risk of edge damage from winding prints on and off bent and sharp-edged spools. Of course, more care is needed to ensure that the film is wound flat on the plate, but that's not much of a problem.

3. There'd be no problem with spools being incompatible with equipment that had a different spindle diameter.

4. The plastic cans are totally airtight and encase the film more tightly than spools in shipping containers, which reduces the possibility for damage in transit.

The two main drawbacks I can think of are that (i) quite serious print damage can happen if the core gets crushed, and (ii) moron projectionists who don't pack off films carefully can massacre a reel with edge damage. But I only get about two crushed cores (usually on rep prints that have been sitting on a shelf for decades) and two edge-damaged reels a year on average - for the sake of someone's eye, that strikes me as a price worth paying...

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-08-2001 09:47 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree- it would probably be better if we (in the U.S.) stopped using reels- if we had a high percentage of good operators. But, we don't. And, cheap theater owners would complain that they have to buy a few split-reels!

Usually (again, in the U.S.) theaters have their own "house reels"- good quality reels. When you receive the print, you take the film off of the cheap shipping reels and put them on to the good reels- which you use during the feature's run. (The few that still use reels, that is.)

There will still be a compatibility problem with spindle diameter because some places run larger (1 hour) reels, and use the larger spindle.

I feel there would be a problem using split reels when breaking a show down from a platter. Many operators in the US are, sadly, just not trained properly, and will not wind the film with the proper tension. As soon as they take the film off of the split reel, I'm sure they will not hold it properly, and it will fall out from the center.

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-08-2001 09:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with John. There are too many platters that do not provide proper backtension on breakdown and too many operators that simply are not trained well enough to handle film on cores. A platter such as an AW3 will break a film down with such perfect tension as to be able to ship prints on 6000 foot lengths on cores effortlessly. In fact, the wind is so good that you can rack your knuckles onto the side of the roll without fear of the core falling out. Unfortunately it seems that there are far too many platter models that can not. If the film isn't wound perfectly smooth and tight, film damage would happen to the sprockets during ship back to the depot. Although I would personally PREFER to receive and ship back prints on cores, it is probably a bad idea for the common multiplex. I have received far too many used prints that were wound so loosely it was obvious that the motor was disengaged during breakdown and if the reel was to split open, the roll would completely fall apart. In fact, just getting the film off of such a loosely wound reel without cinch scratching it takes a lot of extra and unnecessary care.


Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-08-2001 10:06 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I have seen in Japan years back in the carbon arc booths, the Japanese Projectionists didn't even use reels.

It was simply a 2000 foot roll of film mounted on a core. They would place the roll of film in the upper magazine along with a piece of free-wheeling aluminum flat bar retain it.

They rewound them the same way. It looked wierd, but there was never any trouble with the rolls un-spooling themselves.

Of course, being true professionals in their craft, they probably never considered anything other than flat bar to retain the film, as nothing else was really needed.


Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-09-2001 05:59 AM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also, there is the problem that many MUT's cannot turn split reels at all. The split reels I have are driven by that little key slot off the center hole. My Strong MUT's drive reels using a two post (spindle) system that requires a large reel hub with extra holes around the center hole. For me to wind onto cores I have to pull the film onto a house 6000 or 2000 large hub reel, reverse the entire reel at the rewind bench and then flip the film again onto the core in split reel once again at the rewind bench. All this extra time to get the reels heads up on cores! Not to mention the fact of incompetant operators getting their hands in the mix, the extra time alone would drive most multiplex operators batty.

-Mike

Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 12:42 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To answer Leo's question, yes, in the US we have such an organization-the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). Problem is, if she reported this to them they'd come down on the place of employement (the theatre) and not TES.



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