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Author Topic: What makes older projectors better than newer ones? Dick Prather Master Film Handler Posts: 259 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-01-2003 02:55 PM                     Mark, You might want to go back and read my post again as I thenk you missed part of it. I did agree with you on poor metal technology in older XL's. I also have done several cutouts for Kelmar updates as well as many many more rebuilds. I have rebuild machines from around #100 to #16,000+ and I do find a defference in all but the machines with the serial I mentioned numbers still being the best for fit, alignment, and all around running. I will still stand by my openion of better quality in assembling and testing the older machines before they were sent out of the factory. I just don't agree with you.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-01-2003 03:14 PM                        Mark--this probably sounds like a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway: what's the difference between the cast-iron Century C and the later versions? I've worked with a number of Century C's (with both large and small lens holders; also, some have doors like on modern Centurys and some have doors with three smaller windows with wire embedded in the glass) and have liked them all. How do I tell what material the casting is made of?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-01-2003 03:30 PM                     Scott, The pre WW-2 cast iron Century C's are the strongest of all the American made main frames and also have the least, and smallest cutouts in them for mechanical things that need to pass through the center of the frame....such as the fire shutter and such. he cast iron of these main frames is exceedingly hard and super strong. The thing about cast iron is that it age hardens, and keeps getting stronger and stronger over the years. We found the same thng happenning to the older DP-70's, especially the old arc lamphouse tables which we shorten up for todays modern Xenons. I always end up taking cast iron Centuy C's to a welder to have the fronts plasma cut for the Kelmar turrrets as you'll need many, many sawzall blades and alot of time to acomplish sawing one off. A good welder with a plasma cutter will also do a cleaner job of it! Dick, I did note your serial numbers. I've seen no major fit, finish, or run quality differences in any of serial numbers that were produced by Simplex till GPL took over. MAjor changes then occured in alot of areas in the mahcine. The only real differences were in the low 100 serial number machines. Again todays main problem is lack of quality in the parts being supplied to Strong to build the darn things. Parts headachs generally used to only come from Wolk and lately they've actually seemed to get better while LaVezzi keeps going downhill. If Strong wanted to do some good for the machine they should bring back the rubber mounted shock resistant gearing!! I certainly do agree though that the Simplex and GPL faactories did an excellent job of assembling them and running them in before they were shipped. Lots of attention was spent on the small thngs. Mark  |  IP: Logged Dick Prather Master Film Handler Posts: 259 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-01-2003 04:55 PM                     Scott, When you lift a cast iron Century C you will know it. They were the earlier serial numbers in the 40's and ones made for Canada also had all cast iron doors as well as the frame. Info from Century factory diary pages copied at ORC by a friend of mine. Mark, I lost count of the number of saw blades I went through putting Kelmar turrets in them.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-01-2003 07:49 PM                        Yeah, Brad - I do like those old heavyweights - but maybe in a month, I'll begin to shout about little new things in my world: An FP30 D will replace my Vic 9 in screen 2, and after what i hear from many honored members, those have many fans, too, so let's see. As long as i can have a roll of film to put into any projector, i guess i'll be happy. -It's the next step, that worries me... You know, -me and computers p.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-02-2003 08:48 AM                     Per, You have a VIC 9 on one of your screens..... , , , , And I thought you appreciated quality machinery...... Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-02-2003 09:46 AM                     Come on mark the vic 9 is a okay machine never had grief from them  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-02-2003 11:29 AM                        Hey Hey hey - Only four more weeks, then it will be gone forever with its rockandroll pictures. My fine 60 year old Bauer B5 was badly damaged one night 6 years ago, and Miss Victoria was the only projector to get overnight - that's my excuse. Next problem is, - if You watch the pic's somewhere in these forums, that booth nr 1 does not allow for both 2 DP70 with proper lamphouses, platter, tower and Yours truly, and the DPs have therefore been running with CX 900 shoebox lamps since they arrived here in 1974. Othervise, my dream would come to reality with the FP30 arriving - a nice plaque beside those from dts and dolby: "Cinemeccanica-free zone". But Kinoton has not got a lamphouse with the dimensions to fit in. I know very well, that the Cinemec lamps gives me fully the light, i need for my 15 feet down there, but i also know, that any other brand would give me the same light, if not better, for a much smaller electricity bill, so i'm still looking around... On the other hand - You could say, the Vic is there because i want to make friends with the almighty admin - You know, that one guy in the world, who will not take our DPs away from us..!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-02-2003 11:57 AM                     There's those happy thoughts again. BTW, I used to have a DP70 in my screening room.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-02-2003 06:02 PM                        Oh, my goodness, -oh, my goodness Mark - help me out here: The admin must have one point for having had a DP70 in his booth, but he will also loose a point by getting rid of the beauty, but damn - The princess must have done something wrong to be thrown out - will that be a minus point for DP70 ?? I never as much as touched or even seen a Century, new or old, but the fact, that two of those now do the job at the FTscreen, of cause make me believe, this must be really something - if they were not simply sponsored, that is... Only Century's in Denmark seems to have been those of a travelling Cinemiracle Cirkus, later donated to the danish film museum, who threw them out - just like all those fine 70mm prints. "Happy T a l k " - qoute South Pacific - in ToddAO ! To end it up: Old men go for Old projectors - And that's the way it is !  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-02-2003 10:26 PM                     Per, I won't say this too loudly , but that ex-admin. DP-70 is producing fine pictures(far better than a JJ can)on one of our customers screens up in Wyoming. I've had quite a few JJ's myself and the only really good ones are the Cinerama 70mm Centurys which were not originally set up for 35, in fact they had 70mm only sprockets on them. I've converted several over to 35/70 myself and they actually will give comparable performance to the DP-70, but not near the light level or steadiness. The JJ itself is too lightweight weighing in at less than just the DP-70 lensmount and single motor mount weights combined......unless mounted on a 500 lb Cast iron Super Simplex base . There is then some competition going on between the two contenders . Also, JJ's with serial numbers lower than about 300, and with the rare steel shutter blades are the only acceptable JJ's . After that serial number all hell broke loose in the Century factory and the quality fell drastically . It doesn't take old men to appreciate old projectors. The DP-70's we've put in command a special reverence from the teenage operators that run them!! They seem to take extra special care of them too.... Also, projectionists from neighboring theatres constantly roll into the booths thata re DP-70 equipped to pay homage to them . This is true!! Mark  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-04-2003 11:20 AM                     Mark, Were there many straight 70mm Cinerama machines? I know that New Orleans and St Louis had them. Do you know of any others? I was told that Century once made a steel intermittent drive gear for JJ's. Is this true?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-04-2003 11:54 AM                     hehe, Mark and Per you guys are pretty entertaining. Yes my old DP70 is up in Wyoming. I think somewhere in the archives I made a list of why I did not like it. I'm sure I could put a few minutes of thought into it and make a new list if you are interested in hearing my reasons. (Nothing in the screening room was "sponsored". My JJs are older rebuilt units.)  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-05-2003 04:52 AM                        As a matter of fact and honesty: If One can get used to running a cinema in Malling, one might also get used to the DP70. Both just being signs of one being able to accept a little bit of this and a little bit of that OR one being a bit slow on under-standing, how rough life is. Of course, that machine is old-fashioned - the drawing is fifty years old. No-one was building multi-cinemas at that time, and then, why should the booth be automated. To change picture format, You'll have to stop or c/o, if You're lucky enough (!!) to have two of those, -but i can live with that, when i think of the plusses: You will have to buy one of the new electronic Kinoton's to get a more steady picture, You won't (as far as i know) find ANY projector, letting more light through the hole than the DP70, You will (almost) never have any expenses to spare parts, except when You're foolish enough to let the Princess unattended when running a damaged print. A new intermittent sprocket now and then over 29 years, -that's all. To compare: I once attended a show, where suddently, the picture hit the sidewall in stead of half of the screen, because the boys up there had been to work too many beers of time, and a fight went on. That would never had happened, if they had been running DP's. Worse - believe it or not: The projector, they were almost knocking around, was a U2 !! Be nice to Your princess, and she'll be nice to You. Better yet: -Buy a Princess from Mark, and even Mark will be nice to You ! Let's see that list, Brad, when You've got the time. -But careful now: You will have a headace, making it more than a few lines. Taste and likes maybe should not be discussed, but Mark and i are such sentimental little ones, forever defending our loved ones. BTW: I once showed a pair of DPs to a very bright, young high school boy named Hauerslev. - Look, what came out of that ! HAPPY THOUGHTS p.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 06-05-2003 07:12 PM                     As a machinist with some pattern making experience, I do need to reply. The puprose of CNC machining is to speed up the production process for long production runs. Multi-axis machines with the use of modular fixturing can eliminate a lot of specialized tooling and machine set-ups that may be needed otherwise. Also, the fact that with CNC machining, the work is constantly being flooded with coolant/oil mixtures which keeps the work at room temperture...less heat means faster machining capability. But bear no bones about it, cnc DOES NOT MEAN QUALITY! Things to take into consideration...how good is the programmer? I have been witness to programmers who do not know what they are doing..By the time they wrote the program, I could have made the needed parts many times over on manual equipment! Plus, if the programmer is incompetitent, he or she may write a very inefficient program. They may have the computer programming skills, but may lack the experience of a qualified machinist or tool maker that will know how to macine a part in the most logical sequence. And as stated earlier..."machine operators"! Furthermore, I have both done and have been witness to very accurate high speed machine processes using manual equipment: turret lathes, pentagraphs, gang drilling and boring equipment and the like. CNC machining and CAD do have advantages...such as solid 3-d modeling so you can see the completed product before ever making it. During the days of manual drafting, it could sometimes take months to prepare the drawings for a complicated plastic injection mold or stamping die. There are now computer programs that can design the mold or die withing hours! But with all this computer technology at our fingertips, it constantly amazes me about all of the mass product recalls that exist in industry...especially the automotive industry! As for metalurgy....the metal technology today is by far superior to what it was a hundred years ago. The modern technology that allows us to inspect material at a cellular level...superalloys...the ability to closly monitor smelting, casting and heat treating processes...this is a whole complicated topic unto itself.  |  IP: Logged

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