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Author Topic: cp50 prob/questions
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 09:25 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There was a small daughter board from Dolby that allowed Mag/Nonsync to flow through the eq and fader

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 09:34 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord, The post facility didn't have a dime to spare for the daughter board. The rent was something like 40K a month there. Steve, is this figure correct. The place made it cause Steve was very good at winging it with just about any request.
Mark @ GTS

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 10:09 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The last 10 cp50's that we got for hauling away and scrapping all had the daughter board on them

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Dave Ganoe
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Point Marion, PA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 11:14 PM      Profile for Dave Ganoe   Email Dave Ganoe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to all the info in getting the CP50 to work. Add the fader did the trick. Hope no one minds more questions. How do I know which switch puts the unit in sr mode? Is it the button that says stereo? Are the led's on the 280T cards supposed to light up when it is in sr mode? Thanks.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2002 11:17 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Since you are basically just swapping out the cat22 Dolby "A" cards with cat280T Dolby "SR" cards, yes pressing "stereo" or "NR" or whatever it is labeled will enable Dolby SR.

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-14-2002 05:11 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark said: "(B+ is) a terminal with available electrons.."

Gee whiz Mark, I could jump on this nit picking bandwagon and say "no it's not, B- is a terminal with available electrons, B+ is a terminal with a depletion of electrons". But no, I wouldn't be another nit picker and say that!

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-14-2002 08:14 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray, What kind of picker are you? I set that up for Steve G and now U gave it away.......

Dave,
Set Dolby level with the CAT 22's in place then put in the CAT 280T's and run. This is the way Dolby reccommended it should be done years ago when these things came out.
Mark @ GTS


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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 02-14-2002 08:23 AM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The last 10 cp50's that we got for hauling away and scrapping all had the daughter board on them

Gordon- I assume you mean the Dolby Cat223 board that was connected to the backplane on the CP50?.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-14-2002 08:48 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason he hauled off 10 perfectly good CP-50 stereo processors was to have enough cards to get all the EPRAD Starscopes he installed all over Ontario running properly!
Mark @ GTS


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-14-2002 08:13 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually the cards were used to upgrade some CP200's to aux rack for LE and RE and PQ 1/3 octave
Also some were converted to EX units

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-15-2002 05:45 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Mark, I guess "nit picking" is probably one of those purely Australian expressions. I think it derives from the habit of monkeys etc to pick the nits (small insects) from each other's fur. We regard a person who finds fault over the smallest, most insignificant things as a "nit picker". B+ is fine with me, I know what you are talking about.

Also I don't FULLY subscribe to the "it must be played the way the director intended" line... I am getting really sick of hearing that from people who have never been involved on the creative side of sound (or vision) production. The truth is half the directors in Hollywood wouldn't know good sound if it stood up and slapped them in the face! Just ask some of the audio fraternity. So often it is the sound team who create great soundtracks and the director just gives the nod and takes the credit for it (or just says "make it louder"!!). If you can make a mediocre mono soundtrack sound better, then why the hell not? Most sound professionals that I know would be grateful for the assistance.

Also with reference to Steve G's comparison about the practice of playing Dolby B encoded cassette tapes back with the NR switched off because it "sounds better".. the problem here was that high speed duplication (which is used for all general release pre-recorded cassettes) completely screws the Dolby B process because it results in lower high frequency levels than the master. So people HAD to turn the NR off to get decent highs. Also because of the considerable variation in record and reproduce levels from one cassette player to another, the only time Dolby B is guaranteed to work correctly is when a cassette is recorded and played back on the same properly aligned deck.


------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-15-2002 12:15 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
By "the same properly aligned deck", I assume you also refer to having the bias fine tuned for each cassette. Even if the bias is adjusted for one particular brand of tape, each batch of them will be slightly different, enough to cause Dolby mistracking.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-15-2002 01:20 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DAMN you guys are good! I think I am going to give it a shot -- adding the switch on the rear to disable the Academy filter. Dolby modified our unit -- upgraded caps and put in the cat 113 automation which as Mark points out, has limited the flexibility by only offering preset versions of the formats -- no ablity to choose NR on or off, for example.

Steve G, you are right about consumers and Dolby B -- I started out as a audio recording engineer and no matter how much I explained that using the NR to boost high end was counter productive, no one paid any attention. The same with Dolby SVA tracks in the early days when they originally double inventoried Dolby and non-Dolby prints, Dolby quietly backed away from the double inventory concept (bad marketing fly in the Dolby ointment) and seemed to imply that Dolby prints with A type noise reduction were "compatible." Seemed to me, if you have type A noise reduction, there is no way you can play that back without decoding it, unless you like the sound of swooshing high end what sounds like someone constantly turning a treble control up and down. In the recording studio any engineer worth his salt would laugh if anyone suggested a tape recorded with Dolby A was compatable with decks not equipped with an A decoder. How Dolby got away with suggesting that it was possible to play Dolby A prints without decoding was a mystery to me.

So I wholeheartedly agree with the negative effects of switching out NR when it should be there, but I disagree with the parallel made to the Academy curve. The steep Academy attenuation was not designed as a compensation for a mirror boost in the optical recorder, but simply as a poor attempt to compensate for the noisy optical tracks of the 30's and 40's. As soundtracks got a lot cleaner and the recording technology improved, the need to roll off the high end as a way to attenuate hiss became unnecessary. I just don't see the need for it with the very well recorded films of the 60's and 70's. I am going to follow all the good advice here and knock the thing right out of the processor -- switchable, of course.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-15-2002 04:03 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank,
I definately agree with U about the fact that the Academy Curve was brought about for reduction of noise form early soundtracks. The older variable density stuff was sometimes pathetic in the noise department. I've also heard really great variable density too. Several old I.B. prints I ahve are variable density and sound fantastic with a red led reverse scanner on them. But if they are noisy its really, really noisy! It wasn't till the advent of variable area that noise levels got better and finally with the addition of noise reduction shutters got to where it is today.
Mark @ GTS

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 02-15-2002 06:37 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark: The rent wasn't quite that bad but it was substantial and elscalated every year plus the share of expenses went up as well. Three screening rooms was too much which is why #3 later became a large editing suite. Glad I was not a principal of that business.

Frank Angel opined:
>How Dolby got away with suggesting that it was possible to play
>Dolby A prints without decoding was a mystery to me.

The Dolby A system works akin to a set of compandors working independently in 4 frequency bands. Encoding with no decoding ought to just have the effect of bringing up the low level sounds. That shouldn't be too deleterious to the sound. With the presumption that the non-Dolby theatres might have poorer listening conditions (background noise, bleed through, etc.) it hypothetically could even help.

Of course that's just the theory and we all know how well some theories work out.

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