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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Can anyone top us?
John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-22-2002 06:50 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad...open the site, hit the "Neuigkeiten" (NEWS) button, then click on "BildKatalog" (Picture Catalog). The photos are a little dark, but you get some idea of the size of the place.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 04-22-2002 04:45 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From what I gather, this screening room you are putting together is a labour of love rather than a purely commercial project, Brad, so I guess we can be really proud that we have a similar array of equipment in a multiplex theater. Even more so since it does not belong to a large chain, but is privately owned. I forgot to mention that our two largest screens will have changeover and 70mm, but weīll put that in later.
The 7 rooms are on 4 different floors. Every screen and every floor has a different colour scheme. We also have a coffee-and-bagel-shop, a bar and a restaurant. For those who canīt use the stairs or the escalators, we have an elevator and specially equipped seating areas for handicapped people.
Your project sounds very interesting, Brad, so what projectors, what amps and speakers do you have?

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-22-2002 05:18 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it is commendable that this theatre has all sound formats in all auditoriums. In America usually a theatre has one digital type in all auditoriums and a couple of the other types scattered around.

So Michael Schaffer will be a unique position of telling us what he runs the most after he has been open a few months. If I had all Dolby digital, I wouldn't run anything else. Sony can sound just fine but there have been some reliability issues. I just hope there is not sound bleed between auditoriums.

When a film comes in all three sound formats, which one will you use? How will you choose?

The impression I got from the photos on the website is that there are a lot of stairs and escalators at this theatre.

As for how large I am; I am very, very large!

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 04-22-2002 05:32 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is only one set of interleavened stairs and escalators (can you say that in English) on the front side of the cinema. Actually the photos are quite old, but as we are nearing completion, we donīt really have time to take pictures... There are also staircases on both sides of the building, but mainly as emergency exits.
I like all formats, they all have their pluses and minuses, but if a print has SDDS, we play it in that format. As I wrote earlier, when a SDDS track drops out, itīs due to the printing quality (or rather, the lack of it). I have seen completely wasted prints on which the SDDS track still performed very well - if the print was done correctly in the first place. When I have a little more time, I will open a new subject about that.

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 04-22-2002 06:37 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll trade my elevator for your plasma displays........

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-22-2002 07:30 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So is it side masking or scissor masking, or a combination of both?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-22-2002 09:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Uh oh, only two changeover auditoriums? I guess that's a FAIL in the book of Guttag.

I'll have pictures of my screening room setup on the site sometime in the near future. Look for them.

"As I wrote earlier, when a SDDS track drops out, itīs due to the printing quality (or rather, the lack of it). I have seen completely wasted prints on which the SDDS track still performed very well - if the print was done correctly in the first place."

I have also seen the same with SRD, and DTS simply can not be beat in this department. There is just no argument there. Anyway, I think a lot of the general population's dissatisfaction with SDDS is not in the printing, but that the SDDS data is most easily damaged than the other digital formats and as such has a greater tendency of dropping out. Personally, I do not like the sound from the digital EQ found in the SDDS units. It's just too harsh and metallic. That being said, I have found that the SDDS sound when EQ'd through a Dolby processor with good old fashioned cat64B cards simply can not be beat. As AMC says "there IS a difference!"

While print wear is not an issue with me and *most* films are printed properly at the lab, I do have two beefs with the format. First we have that annoying BUZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZ from the singing sprocket. On a DFP-2000 the reader can be threaded with one perf less tension, which stops this (and actually improves performance). Unfortunately, there is no way around the noise with a DFP-3000 and it is an unpleasant noise to deal with in the booth. Add to that many port windows are not fully sound proof, and in some auditoriums I can not hear the projector, but that buzz is there loud and clear.

My only other beef with SDDS is that the technicians refuse to add the one feature that I want...to have a user selectable disable control for that damned "digital concealment" mode. If the film was printed right at the lab and there is no wear on it, this of course does not matter. Unfortunately, I see lab printing where a brand new print DCMs. Many people claim this can not be heard, but I can hear it happening and it drives me nuts. It should just drop to SR instead of "covering it up" with highly compressed backup audio tracks. I also wish the "return to digital upon valid data" time frame was user selectable.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to turn into an SDDS rant, for with the improvements that Sony has made, it is no longer on my hated list and I have been very pleased with it's results. However, until they can fix those problems, it will not stand out as being the clear winner, 8 channel prints excepted.


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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 04-22-2002 09:53 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Congratulations, Michael Schaffer, on your splendid new theatre!
I'm glad to have your input aboard Film-tech, from Germany, where
cinema has developed as a serious art, and where much of the finest motion picture equipment is made!

While at this stage you are rightfully concerned with the architecture
of your theatre (which reminds me of the Pompideau Museum in Paris)
and of the machinery within, I hope your theatre will excel in another
area as well.

For in the US many promising multiplexes have quickly deteriorated and failed because too little attention was paid to the human dimensions of theatre operation. Huge sums are routinely spent on construction, too little on maintenance, while salaries are so meager that major corporations are dependent on workers and managers paid
miserably small wages and salaries. It takes more than mechanical and electronic technology; what is needed is a happy work force of
supervisors and workers content with their working conditions, their remuneration, and their loyalty to their co-workers and employers.
This cannot be achieved unless workers feel that the welfare of the theatre and their personal welfare are interconnected.
Will your new theatre excel in the input your workers will have in determining their working conditions? Will this be achieved through collective bargaining, union contracts, realistic pension plans that
reward workers for their service? Promotion policies? Recognition
of workers' rights to form unions?
Or will your theatre be dependent on part time teenage labor at minimum wage, exploiting those too young to think of planning for the future, causing annual turnover of half the staff? Will there be opportunities for the ambitious to advance through proven competence as well as rewards for long service of those who prefer to remain where they are, perfecting their abilities and providing staff
solidity?

I ask because I know nothing about how theatres operate in Germany,
but have experienced some of the weaknesses of operation of some of the biggest theatre chains in the U.S.
Good luck with your beautiful new facility. I hope you will be able to share some of the human operations that it will enjoy as well!
Gerard

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 04-23-2002 05:48 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:

Hello there,
I am technical manager of a new 7-screen multiplex which is going to open in early May in Berlin. We might be one of the most modern cinemas in the world, at least I have never heard of one which is better equipped. My above question is not a taunt, I am merely wondering if anyone else has such an array of toys under their roof:
SDDS with 8 channels in ALL screens/Dolby Digital/dts
HPS-4000 speaker systems fired by Electro Voice amps
Kinoton FP30E projectors with EMK1 plus network-controlled automation
and multimedia-equipment such as an Apple Macintosh G4 dual-processor video-editing station/8-track digital recorder/video and audio bus connecting the cinemas and plasma displays around the house

Again, my qustion is not meant to be aggressive. Itīs simply that in our team, we are all enthusiasts, and I am curious if there are other cinemas with this kind of equipment...
By the way, this is my first post on this forum, so hello everybody!
Mike


Well i have Dolby Stereo in my one screen


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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-23-2002 09:26 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's an old expression..... If something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

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Richard C. Wolfe
Master Film Handler

Posts: 250
From: Northampton, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-23-2002 10:07 PM      Profile for Richard C. Wolfe   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C. Wolfe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting theatre that ALHAMBRA.


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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-24-2002 12:23 PM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Brad, but most of the unreadable SDDS tracks were lab failiures or misaligned/ non serviced units.
My personal tests - SDDS logo Quest 570+ runs, SDDS pyramid 1200+ runs, spliced in in 1995, still QC Grade A, whereas the Dolby snipes never do more than about 120 runs without giving "weird" digital sounds, indicating corrupted data. From an image on the screen point of view both SDDS logos are totally unacceptable, beeing fully scratched.
If you follow the service and maintainence manual for the old 2000 reader carefully, adjusting LED power, film position, equal illumination, vibration free projector and platter drive, e ven the 2000 units deliver perfect, reliable sound. The 3000 is unbeatable with the current reader software and firmware updates, it even accepts excessive projector vibration. The LED life has significantly improved to 15000+ hours, whereas at DFP 2000, it may still be bad and around 2000 hours, with need for readjustment. Dolby LED also have to be checked, and older DTS readers with A or B rev. on the PCB have not been too reliable due to improper circuitry used.
Yes, I agree, DTS is unbeatable, in general, but I disagree that SDDS tracks wear faster, at least my test do not indicate that.

As this is a thread on a new theatre project, I'll finish here.
As Brad pointed out, some persons like things, others dont, I feel the idea behind the project is worth thinking about. I assume the investor must also work within an economic business schedule, and has no money to waste, so he must have a reason why they go for standards higher than the rest of Berlin, which I tell from my knowledge. Home theatre is a big thing, and too many theatrical presentations are s till offering no or sub standars. There is a former butcher shop featuring 31 seats upfront a bedsheet with communist portable projectors, or some never invested in mono houses, as well as new plex operation, that feature distorted sound, 3 footlambert brightness and no movie going experience at all.
The Ice Age disk which high school kids gave me, probably downloaded and burnt, looked great, had very good Virtual Dolby Surround on my Mac, and was exciting to watch. Certainly much better and more envolving than many Berlin theatres.
At least I assume that's the pointr. To gain commercial success in an overscreened city, where everybody, beside one classic film palace of the old time, tries to go away with as low as possible standards, this is the opposite. I think it will have it's chance, as it might bring back the movie experience and hopefully offers true showmanship.
This craft depends on YOU, Mike!
The best harware and the nicest equipment can only work with well motivated, well paid people behind it. Hopefully this is also true.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 04-24-2002 12:25 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, What in the world do you need a custom EPROM for??

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-24-2002 02:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Stefan, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about which sound format is best, because they are all better than the others in some regard and they are all worse than the others in another regard. You clearly have a passionate love for SDDS, which is of course fine. However regarding the edges being more easily damaged, sorry but this is just a fact of the area of the film that Sony decided to use. Sure SRD is also easily damaged, but I think you will find the general population of techs and projectionists here will agree that SDDS is almost always the first one to go once print wear starts, unless something unusual is happening. Regardless, once you try a bottle of FilmGuard you will find for all print wear to be put to an absolute halt and that both SDDS and SRD tracks will track better than the run before applying it, many times being able to track through a stretch of film that was unreadable before.

Ken, the main advantage of the CA21 automations is that you can custom design them for your particular needs. Joe Redifer had a custom chip made a couple of years ago when he was working at the Chinese in Colorado and got all of the major bugs worked out. I simply had them start with that chip and added other features that I needed, the most important one being automated changeovers that are more accurate than any human. (Well, maybe except for Steve Guttag.)


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-24-2002 03:53 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The customizable EPROM turned out to be one of the better features of the CA-21.

Originally, the CA-21 came to us with the Xenon tied to the Motor relay. We had that separated out so that "Auto Start" now strikes the Xenon. This was to avoid Xenon strikes every time the motor was activated (including "Run Down").

We also had the F1 and F2 keys programmed with "Interrupt" and "Resume" sequences.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.

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