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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: Big Sky cue detector problem
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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-20-2002 06:27 PM
At the risk of getting shot down, I've seen what you guys can do when you gang up....I HATE EDGE CUES... there I've said it..... They cause a noticable picture movment as they go thru the gate and over the int sprocket and they wear with time..... Frameline cues don't cause any movement and suffer no mechanical wear so last a long long time. I have TA10's and the interval / end show cue is on the frame line. As its the most inportant cue it makes sence to have it there. Its the only cue that is ever likley to be left to do its own thing unattended if the duty projectionist is busy elsewhere. So it is important that it is reliable. All other cues are used when the projector is manned so if they miss its not too important and easily corrected manually. There... I've said it so do your worst! Oh... to deflect some of the flak... Brad I've just started to use Film Guard :0)
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 09-20-2002 09:42 PM
Rick, that's a great idea. I did not realize those Xetrons could be set up that way. There are none of them running in this area."Can you see one cue on a frame line at 24 FPS?" Absolutely! It is very easy to see and is equally annoying.
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John Walsh
Film God
Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted 09-20-2002 11:29 PM
If you buy the Maxi12 or early Big Sky automation (they are exactly the same, right down to the gerber artwork) with the cue detector, it can be set to operate in sequential or random mode via a switch ("S1") on the 1-32 PC board. The Maxi12 has a diode matrix, so you can pick which cue number does what "designed-in" function. In random mode, a specific action will occur when a specific number of cues go by; ie: 3 cues - go to flat/sr. In sequential mode, the automation will simply step through a preset list of functions when any number go by: ie: see a cue, perform whatever is set to diode line 1; see another cue, perform whatever is set to diode line 2, etc. When the failsafe detector drops, the automation resets to the beginning.At Crown Theaters, we decided to use random mode, which is when you place up to eight cues in a row to perform the desired function. As Kyle listed prviously, we set it up as so: 1-end show
2- credits lights mid
3- flat/sr
4- scope/sr
5-surround EX (orginally we had this as flat/a)
6- scope only (orginally we had this as scope/a)
7- feature lights dim
8- interlock start (this function can not be changed) When we set this up in the very late 1980's we had seen several cue detectors. At that time we thought there was too high of a possibility a cue detector could miss a cue. If running in sequential mode, every function would be wrong (out of step) from then on. We learned this lesson with our Cinemation system. In random mode, if it misses a cue, the next cue will still do the correct function. We also wanted to standardize cues on the print because we would transfer several prints between theaters, equipped with different capabilities. If you remember, at that time there were a mixture of mono trailers, Dolby A, and SR traailers and features and we wanted these to all be cued correctly and automatically. We put a "3" or a "4" at the end of the exit snipe (first thing shown) so that sets the picture and sound format to follow. We could show a flat trailer in A, then a flat trailer in SR, in any order, then go to a scope feature in A. We use the same exit and policy trailer over and over, so cues only have to be placed on them once, which is why I don't understand why people complain about doing it. This can not be done in sequential mode unless the automation is "diode programmed" for each show - highly impractical. We put a "7" cue at the beginning of the policy to bring the lights down. We thought that since the features change, we would put the fewest number of cues on the print; a "1" cue to end the show, and a "2" cue for light up at credits. Both the "1" and "2" cue should always be placed after the fade-out and just before the end rating where the image is usually all black to reduce being seen. Several operators dislike our using random mode, but it was the only solution that allowed the flexibility we needed at the time (hindsight is always 20-20.) Some people want us to change to sequential mode now since it is true that trailers are now avaiable in both flat and scope, always SR, etc. But while I am looking into that, I'm in no hurry to change. For example, we have several CP65's with EX units. How do we make it turn on EX when required? Now, I just put on (or take off) a few cues and where ever the print goes, if there an EX unit, it will work. Besides, it's something that's been around for over 10 years and worked acceptably. Also, sometimes good design means leaving things the way they are because everyone knows it and it has always been that way (closely linked to; "If it ain't broken....").
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Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-21-2002 04:54 AM
Brad... the cue foil we use is pre cut aluminium self adhesive. We use this so it is a regular size rather than cutting bits off a roll of foil tape.... I've seen bits of tape big enought to wrap a parcel with!! The cues are approx 20mm x 10mmThey fit perfectly between the edge of the sound track and the edge of the perforations when placed on the frame line. When placed on the perforations we use about a third of a cue and place it in the same orientation in line with a frame line so it is hardly, if at all, noticable. All are placed on the emulsion side, although the FM35 is able to read from the emulsion side as well. The cues are easy to remove and don't normally leave any residue, unless they have been on for a very long time. We often get films in with foil applied longways over perforations and it is very difficult to remove without causing some damage to the film itself. On our stock leaders we tape over the edge cues for protection as they get mechanical wear. Some of the leaders we have are well over a year old and have the original cue's still on them. The other point about edge cues is they cause plops and bangs in analogue. In SRD they can cause reversion even if applied on the inner edge!! So for me personally edge cues are a no no..... unless you can convince me other wise. I'd expected a lot more flak from you guys.... I feel left out :0( Regards Ken.
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