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Author Topic: Big Sky cue detector problem
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-22-2002 06:48 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak DID check with customers at the time, who thought Kodak DataCode magnetic control surface was a great idea. But the equipment manufacturers were slow to develop equipment to use it. Today, optical EASTMAN KeyKode edgeprint meets most of the needs, and optical timecode from the camera manufacturers even has limited use.
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/products/keykode/index.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-22-2002 12:27 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
How many different cues do you put on a film? I would think that the start button would be the first cue to start the cycle, then a "feature" cue at the beginning of the film. Followed by a "credit" cue and finally a "showend" cue. Are you guys switching formats with every trailer?

IIRC, this was the setup at my last theater (or something very similar to this):

1 = lights down to half & Dolby A (for trailers; Why A? Idunno.)
2 = lights down & SRD
3 = lights down & EX (I know I said the CP650 automatically detects EX. Don't ask my why they set it up this way!!)
4 = lights up full
5 = Show end
6 = flat
7 = scope (these last two would only be used if the trailers were a different aspect ratio than the feature. Very rare today.)
8 = Interlock start (this cannot be changed)

We never switched lens or sound formats with every trailer, but the options are there if we needed them.

quote:
If you are concerned about the cue detector "missing a cue", wouldn't it be just as likely to miss one out of a possible eight in a row if your running in "random" order? That would be just as bad as missing a single cue, right? When you run it randomly is the detector more reliable?

I totally see your point. Yet strangely enough, I have never seen that happen. I have seen them miss entire sets of cues, thus nothing would happen, but I have never seen them miss just one cue in a series, causing some undesired action. Very strange.

quote:
If you set it up in sequintial order, the only cue that is really criticle is the "feature" cue and the operator is right there to check that the presentation is perfect anyway, right?

In theory. But what happens when you have one operator running a 16 plex?

quote:
If you are relying on DTS for a time code based system for cues, how could you add previews? That would change the time line, and you can't re-record the time code onto the print....And what if you have a film break and you lose some footage? That effects your time base also.

Let's say, for example, 3 seconds of footage was lost in the feature, from 1:10:01 through 1:10:04. The time code reader would know that and would adjust accordingly. It's not like it just starts a counter from zero when you press Start. If that were the case, no time code would be needed to keep track of time. But that is the purpose of the time code. (Just like a DTS player knows exactly what part of the CD to play, even if footage from the film is missing.) I don't know if I explained that too well, but that's the best way I could think of to put in words what I'm thinking.


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-22-2002 12:41 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Man, this is getting to complicated for simple-mind cue sensors....just put a projectionist back in the booth!


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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-22-2002 08:52 PM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken,
You quoted my last post, but you edited it. I was talking about a DTS based timecode, and then a tach that would create a time code. If you are using a tach and lose some footage, then your time based sync would be off.

Rick

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-23-2002 06:58 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
True, but if you loose footage, or have to swap out previews, that presumes someone competent is making those changes or splicing out the damage -- you know how many frames you have lost and you tell the computer that is keeping track of the tach to deduct that number. If you swap out trailers, you would have to put the trailer on a frame counter and deduct or add the difference in frame count to the program. Yes it would require some knowledgable tech work, but so does removing and replacing cue tabs, probably in less time. And I contend it would be more reliable than physical cues and a lot more flexible, with the ability to automate anything you could possible think of.

As for a DTS-based system, that too would only require simple reprograming when trailers are added or removed. Since DTS knows everything that it's playing, you would only need to reprogram it with reference to the trailer title -- for example, to <Dim HL to show level> 1:59 sec into ROAD TO PERDITION trailer instead of 1:59 secs into MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING. Loss of frames from the feature would be a non-issue for DTS because any loss would be "known" to DTS and have no effect on the programed timebase.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-23-2002 08:10 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard, sorry 'bout that. I didn't realize you were talking about two different things.

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