If there are time code and frame specific information on the edge of soundtracks, why can't these time codes be used to trigger simple automation?

Certainly the code is ample to sync a digital disc player so why not have it operate that automation controller?

Now there is a method which will not even "touch" the film.

KEN

I know, not all films are printed with the time code.

It would require a selectable setting to allow for different automation needs... In my case we place the cue 11' from the point I want the shutter to close on the film itself. Some need much much longer for tabs etc. So a 'standard' printed cue would need to be placed say 30' from the end of the picture and each automation would then need some way of adding a delay to suit individual needs.

Then there come's the need to allow for lights at the start of credits and playouts etc etc etc....

If you were to adopt the DTS timecode you would need to know the code itself and have some means of input into the automation to do what you want at the relevant timecode position in the film. What do you do with films that have no timecode on them..... You would end up with a situation where two systems are in operation....

None of these things are impossible but reaching an agreement would be impossible I feel. We all have our own idea of what's best practice and in our way we're all correct when local needs are taken into consideration.

The CP65 would handle all the sound format changes (given we only ran current releases). If it detected SRD, it would change to that. If it detected DTS, it would change to that.

Unless a theater runs rep prints, or trailers/snipes recorded in A or Mono, I really don't see a need to take up a cue setting to switch to "SR" since almost everything is SR nowadays. Then again, I'm probably wrong and everyone will help me understand why! Does EX have to be manually selected?

A note on the Big Sky automation, I detested the fact that they HAD to go on the image area of the emulsion side. What were they thinking??? "Well, given theaters today, customers are probably used to seeing black blotches all over the screen, so why not?" Honestly... We used the genuine Big Sky cue tape at first, which was hard to remove, but it DID come off. Then we changed to some other brand that wasn't labled anywhere once we ran out, and these did not want to come off. You had to work at them like one of those Lottery scratch-off tickets because they would flake apart. Too much damage was being caused to the prints, so we just shipped them back with the cues intact.

As far as every frame vs. every other frame, from a presentation standpoint I think it's better to place them on every frame. That way, when you have seven cues go by, it's a black square for less than half a second. If they're spaced every other frame, you see blink*blink*blink*blink*blink*blink*blink for almost a full second, IMHO being more distracting. To me, it was like saying, "Alright, movie's over! Snap back to reality..."

Yeah, Ken! Hurry up and figure out a way to fix this!

quote:

---

"Can you see one cue on a frame line at 24 FPS?"

Absolutely! It is very easy to see and is equally annoying.

---

I completely agree.

quote:

---

It would require a selectable setting to allow for different automation needs... In my case we place the cue 11' from the point I want the shutter to close on the film itself. Some need much much longer for tabs etc. So a 'standard' printed cue would need to be placed say 30' from the end of the picture and each automation would then need some way of adding a delay to suit individual needs.

---

Well, the sound track is always printed in a standard place on the film and then a delay is adjusted on the processor to make it sync with the picture. Why couldn't something similar be done with cue?

Here's an idea: All that would be required on the time code is the actual time into the feature. Then you would program the "cue processor" to do whatever you want at whatever time you want.

Of course this is just theory. I don't see it becoming standard.

quote:

---

Does EX have to be manually selected?

---

Not on the CP650, which has a built-in EX decoder. It detects EX and automatically switches just like it (and other Dolby processors) detect and switch to SRD when present. However, I believe older processors have to be cued for EX.

Whilst each cinema uses a non standard method of cueing a print they at least get it to do what they want with what they have.....

Now, once commerical Digital Cinema is a reality then things can become standardised and a common automation cue can be introduced....

quote:

---

If there are time code and frame specific information on the edge of soundtracks, why can't these time codes be used to trigger simple automation?

---

If you are concerned about the cue detector "missing a cue", wouldn't it be just as likely to miss one out of a possible eight in a row if your running in "random" order? That would be just as bad as missing a single cue, right? When you run it randomly is the detector more reliable?

If you set it up in sequintial order, the only cue that is really criticle is the "feature" cue and the operator is right there to check that the presentation is perfect anyway, right? I guess that I've been lucky with the Maxi12's and not had any problems. If there has been a case of the cue detector "missing" the feature cue, the operator has been right on it and efficiently replaced the cue before any problems.

I would also think that in platter operation where there is never any error in frame count because of change-over variations, you could easily setup a tackometer to count frames and use that information to automate anything you want using a cheap computer and some I/O serial port cards. Assuming a reliable tack, you would never have missed cues and, of course, you would never have to put anything at all on the print.

Didn't Dolby, or was it Kodak, at one time had tried a system whereby they put an invisible coating of some sort on the film base that had magnetic properties; the idea was that you could record cues on it? Come to think of it, it was Dolby. Anyone know if this was ever put into general use or did it just stay as a good idea that nobody wanted, like DLP?

Frank

If you use a tach, then you still need a show start and show end cue to tell the tach when to start and stop. Also, if you add or remove a preview then you have to reprogram your automation to tell it what "time" to change functions. And what if you have a film break and you lose some footage? That effects your time base also.

Here is information about the Kodak Advantix magnetic information exchange technology (IX):
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/cameras/apsWhy.shtml

Some KODAK ADVANTIX Cameras also offer the remarkable magnetic Information Exchange (IX) technology where the camera records data on a magnetic layer of the film. This data is then used by the photofinisher to provide you with better pictures and new services that can’t be found on traditional 35 mm cameras. Here are just a few of the benefits that Information Exchange (IX) offers:

Picture Quality Information Exchange (PQix)
Using IX technology, the camera magnetically records information about the lighting conditions and exposure on the film. With this scene information, the photofinishing lab can make color correction and exposure adjustments to provide you with the results superior to traditional 35 mm cameras. For example, PQix can correct backlit photos so the subject is properly exposed, or correct flash "washout," or correct for artificial lighting so flesh tones appear natural.

Date and Time Labeling
Now every photo can have the date and time that the picture was taken printed on the back of the photo. The information is magnetically recorded on the film and printed on the back of the photo during photofinishing.

Mid-Roll Change (MRC)
On some APS cameras you can rewind a partially exposed film cassette and later reload it and continue shooting from where you left off. This feature allows you to switch to another film speed in mid-roll to match scene requirements or to dedicate individual film rolls to specific subjects.The magnetic Information Exchange (IX) technology allows the camera to automatically advance to the first unexposed frame of a partially exposed film cassette.

I suppose that all of this becomes a nonissue of a theatre is equipped for SR only (no digital) and plays only current mainstream releases (which are all likely to be in SR) and never runs shorts or policy trailers (hence no mono/Dolby A material), but that situation is pretty rare. Even generic mall theatres run screenings of older films from time to time.

As for cues being visible on screen: I've mostly worked with Kelmar cue detectors/failsafes (with Maxi-10 automations); the cue "dots" are easy to apply with a special punch tool thingie (that's a technical term), but are very visible in scope (but not 1.85). More recently, I've used the FM-35 failsafe (with TA-10 automation); the cues are more difficult to apply, since the foil tape comes in rolls and must be cut to length, attached to the film, and the perforations punched with a splicer, but most of the cues are invisible or nearly-invisible on screen. I have never worked with an edge-cue system, but I will comment that those cues are often very difficult to remove.

 |  IP: Logged

 |  IP: Logged

But I think the primary expected use was to be in motion pictures, for time code, etc. When it came out I remember wondering why, if this was such a great idea, had we not previously seen conventional mag striping used for this purpose. Not that DC would not have been an improvement and probably a less expensive solution but to me it was evidence that there would probably not be a lot of interest in magnetic data recording, not when this can be done optically. If only they'd checked with me first!