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This topic comprises 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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Author
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Topic: NORTH BY NORTHWEST VistaVision?
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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-14-2002 11:24 AM
Wasn't the Dimension 150 system designed specifically to address the curve distortion on the deep curve screens? Was that distortion correction done somewhere in the shooting or printing process of a Dimention 150 picture (or should I say THE single D150 picture ever made) or was it an actual lens that was used in projection? I was under the impression, perhaps erroniously, that it was the later because standard films, both scope and flat, projected on the curved screen at the UA 150 in Syossett looked fine with very little bowing effect. Was this because standard films were being projected through a Dimension 150 correction attachment? Or am I just so in love with the deep curve screen that I just didn't give a hoot about the horizontal lines bending a bit? I love the Zegfield, but it has to get negative points for not having a curved screen or stadium seating. There isn't much they can do about the seating, but I have never forgiven them for not having a curved screen as per original scope specs. The new AMC Empire on forty dousch street (Manhattan) and the UA at Sheephead Bay (Brooklyn) both have stadium seating and large, well lit screens with mild curves; the come-back of the original CinemaScope mild curve screen is a very welcome development. Besides the optical advantages of better light distribution, a curved screen just imparts the image with a sense of expansiveness and grandure and the audience with a feeling of being enveloped by the image that just cannot be obtained on a flat screen. The stadium seating also provides many more sweet-spot seats putting more people closer to the screen and hence more patrons are able to get the image within the periferal vision range -- a 50 foot screen will look relatively larger to more people with stadium seating because the seating scheme can keep more seats closer to the screen. In the Zegfield, people sitting even in the rear orchestra are presented with a diminutive looking screen due to distance. For the people in the mezzinine, the sence of a "large" screen is all but lost.
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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-14-2002 11:41 AM
My experience at the AMC Empire on 42nd St, even on their main screen (#6, I think) is that the sound quality is very brittle and harsh, especially when using SDDS. I saw Minority Report there and found the sound disappointing (and the film grainy as hell!), although I didn't see Minority Report in another theatre to compare. I did once attend a SMPTE meeting which had a demonstration of DLP on that same screen and the sound was fine, so it's not a B-chain problem. I think I've only been to the Sheepshead Bay once and it's currently under renovation anyway (they're adding screens.) Aside from the Ziegfeld, I think my favorite NYC theatre is the Loews Lincoln Square, even though that doesn't have stadium seating either. But the curved screen in the "Loew's" (which is the only THX certified theatre in the complex) tends to have distorted images or soft focus on the edges. IMHO, best place to sit at the Ziegfeld is aligned with the first set of surrounds.
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-14-2002 12:44 PM
FrankHere's an excellent article on how the D-150 process worked. http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm/magazine/backissues/1996/47/d150/come_back_d150.htm BTW, the Ziegfeld did once install a deep curve streen temporarily for the 70mm re-release of THIS IS CINERAMA. According to the review in the NY Times, it was a prety underwhelming experience. It was noted that instead of using real curtains, a SLIDE of curtains was projected between shows.
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-14-2002 01:08 PM
One point of confusion for many people is curved screens, especially with regards to geometric distortion.Systems like 3-Strip Cinerama and D-150 were specifically DESIGNED for projection on a deeply curved screen, to give a "wrap around" effect, especially for people sitting near the "sweet spot". Projecting normally shot films on these screens can lead to problems with controlling geometric distortion, especially if keystone distortion is present due to a high projection angle. When a gain screen is installed, it should be curved per SMPTE Recommended Practice RP95 "Installation of Gain Screens". The purpose of this curvature is primarily to have the highly reflective gain screen reflect more light to the seating area of the theatre and improve uniformity of screen luminance. Ideally, the curvature should be determined by ray tracing, although a curvature radius of (projection throw distance + distance between the screen and audience center) / 2 is often used. The screen may also be tilted to reflect maximum light toward the center of the audience. This curve is usually "milder" than a deeply curved screen, and geometric distortion is less of a factor. ------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243 e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-14-2002 07:06 PM
Oh well, back to detective school. Susan, the editor I've talked to, would have probably been of the same opinion. ------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243 e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-15-2002 10:07 AM
I know the Egyptian in Hollywood (a D-150 house) projected all their 70mm films on the full width screen (well, the full frame ones anyway) but all their 35mm scope and flat films were greatly reduced in size. The Cinerama Dome used to be the same way, but since they remodeled, 35mm now covers most of the full sized screen. I really haven't figured out the lack of curtain use today. I understand theatres are getting extra revenue from whatever source they can, but in Los Angeles, anyway, the Landmark Thetares don't even project slides on the screen, yet have stopped using the curtains that they already have. Do they really save that much money from opening and closing? Mann theatres in LA is still the only chain that does it right. They not only use curtains, but still close them between previews and the main attraction.
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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-16-2002 11:52 AM
Paul, said: >I really haven't figured out the lack of curtain use today.<> (they) have stopped using the curtains that they already have. Do they really save that much money from opening and closing? Mann theatres in LA is still the only chain that does it right. They not only use curtains, but still close them between previews and the main attraction.<Yes, Paul, that is the mystery. In the days of single screens, even the local neighborhood sub-runs adhered to the fairly standardized protocol of curtains opening the show, closing after the attractions/shorts and opening for the main feature -- this with the appropriate use of dimming curtain warmers. With the advent of the Dark Era of multiplexing, it probably did become an economic issue -- curtain motors, curtain tracks and the curtains themselves did add a substantial cost factor when an exhibitor decided chop up a single screen into 10. And let's face it, in the early chop jobs, where a single screen, usually with attractive interior design, was tortured into a multitude of small, misshapen "theatres," interior design and aesthetics was not what anyone was terribly concerned about -- they were lucky if they could find a place to put the screen (up over the exit doors? guess that will have to do), let alone outfit each room with pleasing lighting and curtains. So it just became accepted that in these abominations of presentation and good taste, there just wouldn't be any curtains -- you would be lucky if the seats actually faced the screen and not some imaginary position where the original screen was located....like a person who's lost a leg but still feels an itch where his foot used to be. As theatres began being built from scratch as multiplexes, the classic theatre styles of the old single screen were abandoned for a much more utilitarian approach. Why spend money on "style" when 90% of the time that patron is sitting in the room, the lights are turned off? The idea of a curtain to cover the "naked screen" as they used to call it (a major no-no in the golden era of the movie palaces) seemed "extravagant" in a design that heavily focused on huge, gleaming chrome and glass concession malls and very little on the smallish rooms beyond them down the hall. Any attractive design consideration was going to be saved for the concession area, not the cinemas. And in fairness to the exhibitor, adding a curtain, track, motors and controls, depending on the size screen, can add a nice chunk of change to the cost of each room. Multiply that times the number of screens in a new complex and you are talking about a substantial savings for something no one cares about any more. The exhibitor is much more inclined to purchase more concessions equipment or trailer monitors for his lobby than spend money on screen curtains. In today's exhibition climate, the value of aesthetics is about the par equivalent of that of a warthog.
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