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Author Topic: emulsionside??? System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-09-2015 12:37 PM                 It has been 4598 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-09-2015 12:37 PM                     I just handled a print that read correctly through the base. How common was/is that?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-09-2015 01:01 PM                        Was it a 16mm print?  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-09-2015 04:24 PM                     35mm print of a Guy Maddin film  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-09-2015 05:28 PM                     Generally, in order to get the emulsion towards the lens, there was a print off of a reversal film in there...somewhere.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 04-09-2015 06:16 PM                     Reversal print film was available for making one off copies of a release print with some increase in contrast. The last one I saw was a Van Damme movie that never played in the United States. You have to refocus due to emulsion flip.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 04-09-2015 09:11 PM                     The easiest way to determine which side is which is to run the film on platters. The side with the yellow & green scratches is the emulsion.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-10-2015 12:53 AM                     quote: Jim Cassedy The easiest way to determine which side is which is to run the film on platters. The side with the yellow & green scratches is the emulsion. Really? I would expect that from some newbie, but Jim you've been around long enough to know it's the operator that scratches the film.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-10-2015 02:45 PM                     I got to meet Guy Maddin this afternoon, and I asked if he was aware of the unusual printing on his film ("Archangel") -- I wondered if perhaps the lab did it that way to accommodate a certain look he was going for. He said it wasn't his doing -- as he recalls, the lab said it was necessary to accommodate laser subtitling, but it was over two decades ago, so he's not 100% sure how it ended up that way. Whatever the reason, he recalls (a) not being 100% "sold" on whatever it was; and (b) the sound always seemed a little low wherever it played. I've handled a lot of subtitled films and, thus far, I don't recall any of them needing to be projected "emulsion in," and this includes the subtitled film I'm showing here later today. Anybody ever heard of this unusual subtitling scenario? Regarding the observation about sound playback level -- due to the printing? or due to the documented fact that many theatres play films with the volume turned down?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-10-2015 03:10 PM                        The focus on the sound lens would be off, since it would have been set up for the normal print orientation (emulsion toward lamp). This would reduce HF response and would probably lower the overall level. This issue exists with 16mm prints, too. Color reversal prints (which, as far as I know, only exist in 16mm) are the worst, since they effectively have dye soundtracks, which already compromise sound quality. Not that this is an issue with new prints. Kodak discontinued reversal print stocks over a decade ago. Prints from reversal original now go through an IN.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-10-2015 05:14 PM                     I figured it would affect the HF response, but wasn't sure how much of an effect it would have on perception of overall level. And then factor in that a lot of venues are known to be timid when it comes to playback level.  |  IP: Logged Michael Putlack Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Fort Collins, Colorado Registered: Sep 2011 posted 04-10-2015 06:37 PM                        I'm calling dibs on naming a band "EmulsionSide!"  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 04-10-2015 08:05 PM                        quote: Manny Knowles He said it wasn't his doing -- as he recalls, the lab said it was necessary to accommodate laser subtitling... Oh, that's clever! Because laser subtitles are burnt into the base, the classic problem with these prints is that you can focus the image, or the subtitles, but not both. However, if you flip the whole image and make it as a DIN print (to be projected base side facing the lens), both the image and the subtitles are going to be on the same focal plane and thus, I guess, both will be sharp. Film subtitling technology never did advance to the point at which they could be lasered into the emulsion without damaging a lot of emulsion around the characters, and so most prints of laser subtitled films had to be shown with the letters in soft focus. Making a DIN print to get around this problem seems like the perfect solution, but for the audio issue it would cause. Did this print have any digital optical audio on it? If so, did it play with a higher error rate than you'd typically expect?  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 04-10-2015 08:53 PM                     quote: Brad Miller Jim you've been around long enough to know it's the operator that scratches the film. And you've been around long enough to know that I'll never pass up an opportunity to make some snarky remark about platters, devices which I have no more affection for than that which I hold for tax collectors or child molesters. I just couldn't help myself.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-10-2015 11:13 PM                     Since it means choosing clear sound or clear lettering, I'd prefer to have the movie sound good than to have letters in sharp focus. Subtitles are a compromise to begin with, so I don't mind compromising them. They just need to be legible. And then take into consideration the fact that not all prints will get subtitled.  |  IP: Logged

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